Re: Judaism, evolution, and science in general

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:44:26 +0000 (UTC), Don Levey
<Don_SCJM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:

>ey.markov@xxxxxxxxx (Yisroel Markov) writes:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:42:05 +0000 (UTC), "Rafael"
>> <jmalfatto@xxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
>>
>
>> >> That's not quite what I'm hearing. Certainly you can't tell the above
>> >> to a black man. However, you can tell him that, absent a direct test,
>> >> you are *likely* to be more intelligent than he is. That is a matter
>> >> of simple statistics. Likewise, an Ashkenazi Jew can tell a white
>> >> gentile the same thing - that, absent a direct test, he is *likely* to
>> >> be more intelligent. (As measured by the standard IQ test, Ashkenazi
>> >> Jewish scores average a full standard deviation over the rest of
>> >> test-takers, and white test-takers scores average a full standard
>> >> deviation over the black average.)
>> >
>> >See Don for comments on the relationship between IQ tests and intelligence.
>>
>> Don has a valid point, but it's not very relevant to this particular
>> discussion. So substitute "more likely to score higher on an IQ test"
>> or "less likely to suffer from sickle-cell anemia" for "likely to be
>> more intelligent."
>>
>I'd argue that the distinction is fundemental to the discussion.
>Your substitution shifts the comment from one about one's capability
>to one about a person's *performance*.

As far as I'm concerned, the discussion is about neither of those, but
about whether it's racist, sexist, etc. to assert a difference between
groups of people that's related to their race, gender, etc.

>It's like saying women are
>less likely to be *capable of* earning a living wage based upon their
>innate characteristics, rather than saying a woman is less likely to
>earn a living wage. The former is sexism,

Even if it were found to be emprically true? Say, in the subset of
occupations that require high upper-body strength?

>the latter is the fact of the statistics
>
>> >(Also, as cognitive psychologist Steven Pinker noted: the variation of
>> >scores within these racial categories are much greater than the variation
>> >between them.)
>>
>> Of course. How is this relevant?
>>
>As I understand the argument, while there may be a *statistically*
>significant difference between two groups, the overall variation
>within each group renders that practically insignificant. Herman
>probably has a better explanation (or refutation) than do I.

That depends on the context. If I'm hiring for a position and there's
a white Caucasian and a black man applying for it, it is 100%
irrelevant what the statistics are - the former can be an idiot and
the latter a genius. When formulating policies that affect large
numbers of people, statistics *can* be significant, especially if the
groupings coincide with eligibility guidelines for programs or the
like.

Yisroel "Godwrestler Warriorson" Markov - Boston, MA Member
www.reason.com -- for unbiased analysis of the world DNRC
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"Judge, and be prepared to be judged" -- Ayn Rand
.

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