Re: Since my last note was published when I didn't want it to be let's discuss the topic rationally


"Don Levey" <Don_SCJM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:m3slxkdxzi.fsf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> "Larisa" <purple_bovine@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
>
> > >Beach Runner <b...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > >If someone wants to be vegetarian for health or taste reason, that is
> > >absolutly okay, but to convert it into an animal worship religion is
> > >wrong.
> >
> > Of course - but Judaism does not mandate the eating of meat (at least,
> > while the Temple is not there). So, a Jew who decided to be vegetarian
> > - for whatever reason - is not violating halacha, right? As far as I
> > can tell, Jews can think anything they like, provided they do not *do*
> > anything wrong. If I decide to stop eating tomatoes because I find the
> > color red abhorrent, am I violating halacha?
> >
> As I understand it, the *reason* someone does something can often be
> important. For example, someone who is infirm and whose health would
> be in danger may eat during a fast - isn't that right?

In that case, I think eating would actually be mandatory.

>Note that they
> have a reason. Someone else, with strong health, would NOT be permitted
> to eat. And yet it's the same action.

The sick person in the first scenario is permitted to eat. The healthy
person in the second scenario is not. (??)

>
> If this is true (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong),
> someone who abstains from meat because of their health would be
> permitted to do so in non-Temple times.

Certainly. Even in temple times, we are supposed to live by the torah, not
die by it (assuming that meat consumption would make a person dangerously
ill).

>However, someone who feels
> that there is a moral necessity to abstain from meat is engaging in
> and adhering to a moral code which is alien to the Torah.

Correct. This "moral" code would be anti-torah.

>Such a code
> would NOT be a valid reason for abstaining.

No, it would not be. But I think Larisa's point was that if the person keeps
his reasoning to himself, who would be the wiser?
>
> Consider someone who feels it immoral to imbibe intoxicating beverages
> such as wine (and who is not a Nazarene). Would they be excused from
> making a kiddush

While it is preferable to say kiddush over wine, it is permissible to say
kiddush over grape juice. I believe it is also permissible to say kiddush
over beer, even milk, or any beverage which one would serve to guests and is
not just for quenching one's thirst (Is this correct Josh?) It is also
permissible to say kiddush over challah.

> as opposed to someone whose health would not permit
> them wine and so they must use grape juice?

Since one can say kiddush over grape juice, the person would not be excused
from making kiddush. A better example might be the person who has celiac
disease (gets extremely ill from eating wheat-based products because of
inability to digest gluten) and therefore is excused from eating matzah on
Pesach (assuming wheat-free/gluten-free matzah is not available and even
then, I'm not sure if these other types of *matzah* count as real matzah).
We have had threads on this topic in the past (on whether or not
non-wheat-based matzah fulfills the mitzvah of eating matzah on Pesach), but
I don't think there was a clear-cut answer.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.



.

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