Re: The title "rabbi" (was Re: What would you do? (Part 3))



Lisa wrote:
> Larisa wrote:

> > >It's true that right now (and for the past 1700 years), that system of
> > >batei din has been out of operation, but the Jewish view is a very long
> > >one, and we consider that to be a temporary situation, imposed on us by
> > >others. When it can be rectified, it will, and it would be foolish by
> > >any standards to make changes that the properly running system cannot
> > >support.
> >
> > Ah - finally an answer that makes sense. Thank you.
>
> You're welcome. I haven't been reading this thread, or I would have
> posted that sooner.
>
> > Have there been
> > no changes in the past 1700 years, though, that would threaten the
> > system?
>
> How do you mean? I'm not trying to be obtuse, but what kind of changes
> do you mean, and what kind of "threatening" do you mean? I just want
> to be sure that I'm not misunderstanding.

Social shifts of various kinds that affect the way Jews live, and are
either in contradiction to halacha or require new interpretations of
halachic laws. One example would be the invention of electric lights
requiring new halachic rules on whether they may be used on Shabbos.

> > It's an awfully long time, and I doubt that the Judaism of
> > today is the same as the Judaism of 300 CE or so.
>
> Well... see, that's the thing. We think it is. Oh, some of the
> outward forms may look different. But the core of halakha and the
> system by which it is used... those haven't changed since long before
> 300 CE.
>
> I know that's hard to believe. Things change so much and so rapidly in
> all walks of life, but in this case, we're talking about a system and a
> corpus of knowledge that is and has been the very raison d'etre of the
> Jewish people. It's why we exist, and we've taken great pains to keep
> it authentic. Not in the sense of fossilized; in the sense of
> faithful.

Hmm. Is it the *process* or the *practices*, however, that remained
the same? Because if it is the process that we're trying to keep
authentic, there is enough latitude for fairly broad changes in actual
practice.

> The past century or so is hardly the first time in our history when it
> would have been extremely convenient and comfortable to have made
> modifications in the essence of Judaism. But if we did that, then what
> we would have would be something of our own invention. If we aren't
> preserving and being faithful caretakers of what was given to us by
> Hashem... well, hell. Who needs the grief?
>
> For my part, I certainly don't think ethnicity is sufficient reason to
> put up with anti-semitism, or even being different. Nothing in the
> history of mankind has caused more pain and suffering and destruction
> than the division of people into subgroups. If it's not something that
> Hashem specifically required us to do, then it's just plain wrong.

True - and yet, when I think of Russian Jews who "passed" for gentile,
I can't summon up any respect for them.

> > Also - are there loopholes and workarounds that can be employed in this
> > particular situation? Usually, there are plenty of those in any legal
> > system.
>
> There are loopholes and workarounds for all sorts of things. But there
> are also boundaries that cannot be crossed. No loophole can make it
> permissible to eat on Yom Kippur, for instance. A sick person may be
> required to eat on Yom Kippur, but I suspect that's not the kind of
> thing you're looking for.

True. I'm specifically looking for loopholes - for example, while it
is never permissible to eat on Yom Kippur, is it permissible to take in
nourishment through an intravenous tube? To inhale a mist that
contains a nutritious mixture that can be absorbed through the lungs?
To have a photosynthetic element implanted in your head so that your
skin generates nourishment for your blood cells when you expose your
head to sunlight? (I'm assuming that none of these would be acceptable,
but you get the idea)

> There's nothing wrong with women being teachers. I don't know enough
> about the issue of poskot, but I suspect that there's nothing wrong, in
> principle, with women being authorized to make halakhic determinations
> in a well defined context that is clearly distinct from that of
> "rabbi".
>
> I can even imagine things developing to the point where poskot are as
> widely accepted as rabbis among Orthodox Jews, and it becoming
> something that's just taken for granted. Where women with the aptitude
> are as likely to learn for a... tifsok tifsok, I guess, as men with the
> aptitude are to learn for a yoreh yoreh.

Ah. It would be interesting if such a thing were to happen.

> It could become a difference that doesn't make much difference at all,
> in the current context. But once the court system is reestablished,
> the difference would become much more pronounced. Because the era of
> any man with smicha being able to make a halakhic ruling would be at an
> end. And the same would go for women.

True. But who knows when that'll happen. Meanwhile, the more people
can apply themselves to studying Torah, the better - right? And who
knows - a woman might come up with a brilliant interpretation of some
issue that has eluded scholars for centuries.

> > LM (currently acquainting myself with the US patent law... <sigh>)
>
> Eww. My brother is a patent attorney. I took the LSATs to satisfy my
> father (who thought that a high grade would prevent me from moving to
> Israel), but I never really considered law as an option. I'm too
> undisciplined.

After 3 months of studying, I can understand your viewpoint very well.
Pleh. Never mind that I had the chutzpah to want to take the Patent
Bar before going to law school (it is permissible if you have a
technical degree), and without taking a single law-school class - sigh.
I just hope I can pass the thing on my *second* try - I'm 99% sure
I'll fail it the first time I take it.

LM

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Eating without Eating (was Re: The title "rabbi")
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  • Eating without Eating (was Re: The title "rabbi")
    ... >> There are loopholes and workarounds for all sorts of things. ... >> permissible to eat on Yom Kippur, ... > skin generates nourishment for your blood cells when you expose your ...
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