Re: Pastors connected to US Presidential Candidates

On Tue, 13 May 2008 22:47:27 -0400, "William A. T. Clark"
<clarknospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <48rj24dcndjn7l717cskqishjkd7bs6d4h@xxxxxxx>,
"Wolfie <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>" <rayh@xxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 13 May 2008 14:58:44 -0400, "William A. T. Clark"
<clark.31@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <kubj24ld375f94b0bgvbshj1ba429ses4a@xxxxxxx>,
"Wolfie <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>" <rayh@xxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:06:02 -0400, "William A. T. Clark"
<clark.31@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <3v4j24hn1a3or1o1v57lamrsbpiu4tbun2@xxxxxxx>,
"Wolfie <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>" <rayh@xxxxxx> wrote:

On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:44:19 +1200, Culchie Aspirant
<republican_remove_this_@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, 12 May 2008 09:29:33 -0400, "Wolfie <rayh<spam>@iol.ie>"
<rayh@xxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 09 May 2008 22:27:36 +1200, Someone else
<republican_remove_spam_@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

If Pastor Wright is fair game, not that I think he is, for
anti-Obama
campaigners then why isn't Pastor John Hagee:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee#Accusations_of_anti-Catholici
sm

"A Godless theology of hate that no one dared try to stop for a
thousand years produced a harvest of hate."

That quote is proudly cited by David Brog in his recent book,
Standing
with Israel. Both Brog and Hagee clearly identify the Roman Catholic
Church as spawning a "theology of hate."

Are you comfortable with that Ray?

Nik

It's apples and oranges...

Catholics are voting for Clinton... Working class (blue collar)
people
are
voting for Clinton...

Yes, quite...and I will forever have a debt of gratitude to Bill
Clinton for the excellent assistance he gave to the Irish Peace
Process and I personally respect both the Clintons, surreptitious
blowjobs notwithstanding,..but that's not the point...

I thought, for a minute you were being sarcastic...

McCain has
proclaimed Hagee publically and vice versa and, this is the key bit,
John Hagee has publically uttered anti-Catholic hate speech.


McCain didn't sit in his pews 20 years... That's the point!

Not at all - you have no idea whatsoever what Wright preached over these
years apart from hearing this one recent outburst.


Recent my arse!!! He's distributed DVD's of his speeches...

Oh, you have them? Perhaps you can share them with us then?

The subject of them are all over the news...

As I suspected, you can't actually find them or, more importantly, this
inflammatory content you claim they contain. How typical.

You can find news reports on youtube if you want...


I can't understand why you are not backing her...

With respect to Hillary, in any other election i.e. one without
Barack, I woul see her as a *very* strong candidate that I would be
happy to back.


Are you backing Obama because he's black? Over 90% of blacks are, and
more
educated whites are as well... Is it the idea of a black president in
America
that is your reason? I don't mind the idea of a black president, but
not
this
one... Now if Colin Powell was running... I'd vote for him... But
Obama...

Most people backing him because he is educated and smart, in contrast to
the present incumbent, and his would be successor from your side of the
aisle.

90%+ of blacks are supporting him... The educated "elite liberals" are
backing
him... The working class normal people don't...

Because they are being led by the nose by prejudice and hatred of the
kind you spread. together with Fox and Murdoch.

So the blacks that vote for Obama are being deluded by Fox.. erm... outfoxed?
LOL!!! You liberals... you kill me...

No, I was talking about working class white folk. Do try to keep up.

Do try to be more clear.



At the end of the day,
though, we will see just how many of them want another four years of
Dubya junior. Not many, I am sure.

You in the "cut and run" brigade? And that policy will help the world
humanity
exactly how?

No, I belong to the peace with honor brigade, i.e something that will a)
stop the current slaughter, and b) leave behind some semblance of stable
democracy that does not hate the US. Current policies have, and will do,
neither.

As long as the terrorists exist, the military must remain... When Iraq can stand
up by itself and is democratic... Until then!



A *key* difference, for me, is that she is backed by corporates, such
as Monsanto, whose main responsibility is to their
stockholders...whereas Obama is not...his money comes from the common
people...people who don't usually get involved in American politics
because they've learned that whomever they vote for the white man
always gets in...


I would think the most voted for candidate gets in... black or
white...

If that were the case, Al Gore would have been President following the
2000 election. He took more of the popular vote than Dubya.

What about the "pregnant chads" that the Dems were obsessed with insisting
on
counting them in Florida... NOW they want to completely disregard
Florida...
Democrats... Yeah... <cough>

What has that to do with the popular vote? Answwer: nothing. Carry on,
Ray.


Lovely spin... But the facts are the facts... Either democrats want every
vote
counted or they want every "acceptable" vote counted... You are looking
more
and more fascist from where I'm standing.... What's next? American flags on
our lapel.. oh wait... Obama is opposed to that... no! Wait... he recently
started wearing one again... Next thing he'll be standing for the Pledge...
Wow! What an American!

No spin - the Democrats can run their primaries under any rules they
choose. You don;t belong to that party, remember? And as for the stupid
stuff about pins and crap, what matters is what is between his ears, not
on his lapel. But I suppose I should not be surprised, seeing as you
have gullibly swallowed all of Dubya's window dressing for eight years.

If the flag pin is not important, then why does your candidate now have one
again?




More to the point though, Obama is, in my opinion, both will be the
next President and will also be regarded, by future historians, as a
*Great* President c.f. Washington, Lincoln, Kennedy....Obama.

Certainly the Kennedy clan think so...


SOME of the Kennedy clan think so, but not all... It's divided
liberals
countrywide...


Barack Obama represents a peaceful revolution in race relations and I
just love the guy to bits.


I understand that... He's a very charismatic guy... But you've got to
think
beyond the popularity contest and examine his policies... What he
would
change
in America... Are things I do NOT want changed... I think he would HURT
America...

Hard to see how anyone could hurt America more than the present occupant
of the WH. These eight years have been a total disaster, for which our
children will pay for decades to come.


Your kidding me!!! The children of 9/11 are the ones that have to pay...
America is trying to ensure there is NO other attack on that scale... The
Dems
want to "talk"... to our ENEMIES... FFS Obama was recently endorsed by
Hammas...

And America is going about doing so 180 degrees wrong. Creating
perpetual enemies for the US will ensure that we will be under some kind
of siege for years to come. And your Obama/Hamas effort is pathetic,
even for you.

Your SO liberal... what do you want us to do? Fuckin' lie down and beg for
mercy? REAL Americans stand up and spit back in the face of the enemy and
bring
our great military to the fore.... You... however... only invite more
terrorism by being weak... weakness encourages our enemies...

That should be "you're so liberal". And please try to talk in something
other than obscenities - it doesn't make your case look very good.

Grammar police are in the house! <groan>

REAL
americans are out there every day, teaching in inner city schools,
trying to improve society, working to improve education and cut down
crime, and, yes, serving in the military. But not being plastic flag
wavers like you.

I don't have a plastic flag to wave...


If you MUST back a leftist/liberal that is...

There are things that appeal to me about McCain and I believe that
he's quite a strong candidate - the Republican Party are wise, in my
opinion, to have settled behind support for McCain...another thing
that I like about him is that he isn't a neo-con...

LOL!! That's one of the things I do NOT like about him... I wanted
Huckabee
or
Hunter as our nominee... admittedly, very conservative... But in a
time
of
war,
that is what we need... McCain for example will end water boarding...
And
plans to close Camp Gitmo... He won't cut federal funding of sanctuary
cities
and he's not most popular guy with the NRA and he voted against the
Bush
tax
cuts... But he's what we have...

So how come you are voting for him?

He's not Obama and not Clinton... he's the best we've got... The
liberal
media backed him (NYT)... Now the same media is screaming because Rush is
commander of "Operation Chaos", of which I'm proud to be a foot soldier...

They
picked our nominee, now we get to pick theirs...

When you and Rush get to determine the course of history in the US, the
world is over and done for.

Why? YOu and your cohorts got to pick our nominee isn't it only fair we get
to
pick yours?

No, it's the Democrats' party, and those of you that don't choose to
belong should keep the hell out of their process until the Presidential
election.

Clinton just won WV hugely! And dems that back her are more likely to vote
McCain then Obama if their candidate is not the party nominee...

Fortunately noeither of you carries as much
real weight as you think (well, Rush does, but that's just the
prescription drugs he can't get off).

You HAD to resort to that to make a point... How patethic are you?? <shakes
head>

Not half as pathetic as a fat windbag that makes his living by
pretending to be so morally superior to any liberal, and sits in pompous
(and often simply incorrect) judgement on others in order to press his
own agenda.

Operation Chaos is a complete success!


those people are
war profiteers...how much richer are Cheney and the Haliburton Board
of Directors now after years of war in Iraq and countless deaths of
Iraqi civillians?

Don't tell me you buy into the idea that the coalition forces in Iraq
are
murdering innocent civilians?

Not necessarily, but there is no doubt that this "war" has created an
environment where murder is routine part of life. Saddam was evil - this
is little if any better, and the moment the US disengages, the Taliban
move in.

And Saddam was God's gift to humanity.. FFS!!!!

"The Taliban move in"... And what do you think will happen if we get a
Democrat
President? One that promises to pull out as soon as possible??? FFS!!!
You
know damn well the terrorists are counting on a liberal victory!!! A
DISASTER
for America!!! This is not 1945 Britain... Not a time to let in
Socialists/Communists This is a time for strong Nationalism!!!

Repeat, for the hard of thinking, "Saddam was evil". What will happen
when Obama is elected is that he can start with a clean slate, and
engage these people without the stain of Dubya's baggage on his back.


Yes... forgive the terrorists and HOPE they are nice to us!!! Good luck with
that... Better to exterminate them whenever found... A philosophy you
liberals
find strange, but one that has kept us alive!!! We will do whatever is
needed
to protect our way of life... You will talk and talk and one day talk us all
into a grave... The only language our enemies understand is strength!!!!

Childish drivel again. At some point you are either going to have to
co-exist with the muslim inhabitants of the middle east, or remain
perpetually at war with them. I would have thought that someone who
trumpets the heroism of the bold IRA would know that guerrilla wars are
not won, other than by peace. You don't seem to pay attention too well.


The problem for you is that the terrorists do NOT want to live a peaceful
co-existance... They want to kill us all... we're defending ourselves!


It
is about the only hope for the future. Again, you blather slogans about
"1945 . . "without a single coherent thought to support them. But then,
why am I not surprised?

should I use slogans from 1939 and and all that "peace in our time"
codswallop... YOu are SO dense!!!

That brings me to the main reason why I could not support McCain and
that is he not only wants to extend the war in Iraq but he wants to
expand it into Iran...as we speak operational planning to invade Iran
is going on...

As you yourself would say... Source?


With respect to left/liberal/conservative/right wing ideologies...I am
a gut socialist...meaning my basic desire is to eradicate poverty and
suffering due to that poverty...so yes, I will generally support
left/left of centre candidates...but I'm no extremist...I'm a
democrat.


I'm a democrat as well, but a conservative... and I have the same
desires
as
you, just different ideas of how it might best be done...

Really . . .

For example, I very much like the voting system that we have here in
New Zealand...that is the Mixed Member Proportional Representation
system...it is very similar to the one imposed on Germany after WWII
by the Allies...it is constructed so that it thwarts extremists and
prevents their potential rise to power..

That's not democratic then now is it? The representatives of the
people
who
gain votes should have a place in government... the BNP in Britain is
a
good
example of this... They are center-right and hated by the left wing
media
there
but they get the votes and should be, and are, recognized...

Back to your Nazi friends again, Ray? The BNP is not "centre-right", it
is Ultra-right, and based on ignorance and racial hatred. Any system
that gives them a broader platform is a bad one.


Any system that denies the voter's right to express their opinion and have
their
representatives elected based on their vote....Is a fascist or ultra
communist
system!!

How quaint - it is exactly the fascists that you are trying to wedge
into Parliament. Doesn't this strike you as a contradiction?

Republicans are fascists?

"Parliament", dear boy. The BNP are fascists, pure and simple.

I would call them British Nationalists... Fascists is too easy a label to toss
about...

But your missing the main point (or avoiding it), in that people who are voted
into a position... etc...



.it allows for their
representation in parliament i.e. >=5% of the popular vote but only in
proportion to their actual share of the votes...its a great system.

Obama promises "change" but he's not saying what he'll change or what
he
will
change it too!!

He is wise to refrain from talking about too much detail...at this
point in the game.


If I'm holding a bag and tell you that inside it is the world's best
pig
and
offer to sell it to you... Will you buy it, sight unseen? I doubt
it...
This
is the American presidency we're talking about not American Idol... The
man
simply must lay out his ideas and beliefs and try to sell them to the
people...
There is his weakness...

Poor analogy, Ray.

No... It's not...

Oh, well, my Dad's bigger than your Dad, then. Please name me one first
term President that had experience of the position? Can't find one? No,
I thought not, so POP goes that bag of wind.

So.. your willing to buy the pig in the bag? And there was I thinking you
were
an intelligent enemy operative...

You always have to buy the pig in the bag in voting for President (and
most other elected offices). Would you have voted for Dubya if you knew
going in that he was going to start a war based on two fabricated lies?
Well, in your case, probably yes, but most people would not. Hence his
18% approval rating.


Not 18% see: http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

As for your liberal controlled congress:

http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm

Ah there's your 18%


Oh, and drop the pseudo-military jargon - you are no more a soldier than
my beagle.

Am I? Who knows... Not you... You don't know me at all...

We have all seen the pig, or at least the pig sty,

No we have not... We've seen manufactured "interviews"...

Oh, no, that's not "manufactured".Dubya's ticket only made-for-TV
rallies in 2004 were the definition of "manufactured"? Sure they were
because the guy is too dumb to stand on his own and hold open meetings.
And you talk about "manufactured" . . ?

When is your boy going to appear on the Factor? Hillary has, McCain has..
What
is he afraid of? The man who would be president MUST appear and take the
hard
questions... or appear a scared mouse....


that Dubya has created. We need change, and most people can identify an
agent for the kind of change they want quite clearly.

Change what to what?

A queston ignored... because the answer is... "*** knows" because Obama
hasn't
laid out any practical plans...


That is the question!!! He's dodging any questions and leaves us (voters)
left
wondering... Will you vote on a "hope" promise? I will not!!!

He has laid out
plenty of ideas and beliefs, and they will come into even sharper focus
when he goes head to head with McCain.

No he has not... That's the problem.. if only he would stand up and talk
about
his policy... I might even vote for him... But he's running like a
rabbit...
scared to talk to the media unless it's controlled... He's a weak man..
Do
you
really want this sort of weak man leading the greatest nation on earth?

Oh, please, grow up. Go read a decent newspaper, listen to C_Span or
something other than Hannity/Rush soundbites. It's all out there.

That's just it my friend... I DO read and follow the opponents and read their
blogs and postings... I see the liberals for what they are... LOONS!!!!

Sorry, but it is blatantly obvious that you do NOT take in sources other
than your Faux News and worse pals. Otherwise you would not be so
clueless, and would have more than name calling and YouTube to go to for
evidence.

Youtube has a lot of news stories... It's a good source.
Fox News is fair and balanced...

You just don't choose to
acknowledge them because they don't align with yours.

Ok... simple question... What has Obama done to advance Black issues?

Oh, he's supposed to advance black issues? Why, because he's black? How
strange, I thought he was running for the President of the United
States, not the United Black States. Besides, he has done plenty to help
lower income families - unlike you he is obviously more concerned about
the common good than race baiting.

LOL!! Ask his best buddies Wright and that unrepentent Weather terrorist...
Ask
Jessie Jackson... Ask Al Sharpton! ask the LA times who branded you hero a
"magic negro"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvXz2xaLNMQ

Before you go foaming at the mouth like any other liberal... You might want
to
see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0HCXpbxh9s


You done foaming? Facts hurt dont' they????

No, how about YOU paraphrase what these two YouTube (see I knew it
before you resorted to it) videos tell you? Because I lack the time and
interest to go to your hearsay "sources". If you can't express it
yourself, it isn't worth a damn.

If you can't be bothered to follow a simple link... It's not worth my time...


Answer? Feck all!

He's an opportunists... Went to Chicago to "earn his badges"... he's a
looser... If the dems use him V McCain... They are on a looser...




His health care plan falls short of Clintons

In what way?


Not as inclusive... Your forcing me to be a Hillary defender... A
woman
I
wouldn't vote for it there was only one candidate running...

Of course you wouldn't. No surprise there, given your track record.


No argument that his health care plan is not as inclusive then... So I'm
right
there...

Who said that? I said no surprise that you can find ANY way possible to
avoid giving him any credit for anything. Better wind up the hate
machine for the next six months.

Now.. tell us, what the difference between his health care and Hillary's
plan?
Can't? Figured not... seeing as Obama has't bothered to elaborate on his
plan
and Hillary has...

OK, let's see:

Coverage for uninsured Americans on a basis similar to the plan
available to members of Congress. That's fair, isn't it? What's good for
Congress ought to be good for all citizens, including:


Including illegal immigrants!

Guaranteed eligibility

Comprehensive benefits

Affordable premiums

Tax payers paying for it all... This kind of plan failed in California...
There is NO hope of it working nation wide and having the government run it...


What... does you reply imply that you hope for an invasion of Iran??? I
thought
you were a liberal????? <smug smile>

No, just that you are clearly devoid of any strategy short of nuclear to
solve the middle east mess Dubya has got us into. Again, no surprise
there.

And what's your GREAT PLAN? TALK to the enemy? Yeah great plan pal!

At some point, you have no option. Especially when you cannot define
that enemy clearly, and it doesn't fight you army to army. Ask the IRA
that one.

The IRA had a political agenda... Alqaeda want to exterminate everyone that is
not them! You cannot talk to that...

He's inexperienced

Relatively...I could turn the spin on that and suggest that he's
neither jaded nor corrupted...


Yes you could... But wouldn't you want the person elected President to
be
ready
from day 1 and not learn the job as he or she goes along?

No he isn't. He has been a US Senator.

During which time he has shown himself, according to those on both sides
of the aisle, as a very effective legislator, able to work with both
party to advance important legislation. Unlike Dubya.

Yeah... great.. good... and if that's impressive, where does that leave
Clinton?

Glad you agree. Hillary has a similarly lauded record in her eight years
in the Senate. Nice to have two such stellar candidates to choose from,
especially given the quality of the opposition.

I'm not voting for either...

For a whole 3 years! Big whoop!!!\

Remember, Obama was a Professor of Constitutional Law until
recently...a self made man whereas Bush just rode on his father's and
his grand father's coattails and goatskin apron...


That's not fair and you know it... That's a cheap shot...

It is absolutely fair - see above. Dubya rode coat tails all his life,
and look where that has got us.

Lower taxes... Standing up to terrorists... fighting them and killing them
before they can get here and blow up mothers and children! Yeah! He's
done
a
damn good job!!!

Lower taxes for the rich

Defind rich? Sounds like communism to me!

Someone whose income level is below mine but above yours. :-)

The tax cuts helps the economy... The top 1% of taxpayers are paying 40% of the
tax... The top 5% are paying 60% of all taxes... The bottom 50% of taxpayers
are paying 3% of taxes...
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/01/blog-post_26.html



- wiped out by rampant inflation,

Nobody's fault...

BS again. Handing out the budget surplus of 2000 to the wealthy instead
of using it constructively was a very good start. It just got worse from
there. But Halliburton is doing just fine.

We're at war incase you didn't notice... And that costs us dearly in blood and
in treasures...



and out of
control gas prices.

I would be drilling in Alaska by now... and building nuclear power plants...
This is another mistake the Republicans have made...

Of course you would. You would probably be cutting hands off
shoplifters, and euthanizing the mentally ill, too.

Now who's being childish?



"Killing them before" - actually creating more of
them every day, at a rate that far outstrips anything that the military
is able to do. Heck of a deal, that.

Yet, even Alquada in Iraq recently announced they are defeated... While the
Americans take out another leader... And as soon as we stop Iran from
supplying.. We'll win this war yet!!! While you libs whine about how to talk
to
them... We'll be busy killing the bastards who would kill us and behead us
given half the chance!!!

No they did not, and they are not. Like all such terrorist movements
they build up strength, go on the attack until they lose momentum, and
then lie low while they rebuild strength, and so on. Did you learn
NOTHING from Ireland apart from some silly songs?

The Ireland situation and Iraq are apples and oranges...


He represents the far left nuts

It is a mistake to dismiss your opponents as loons...it is ad hominem.

"General Betray Us"?? Move on president saying that he ownes the
democratic
party that its bought and paid for? Not loons? Come on!

Can we have this in coherent English, please?

Take a remedial english class..

Please, "MoveOn president saying that he OWNS the Democratic party that
IT'S bought and paid for". And you tell me to take remedial English!

You, if your the liberal I think you are, know damn well about this situation
and your attempt to score points is patethic....

Well, not really , as long as you continue to shoot yourself in the foot
with "if YOUR (you're) the liberal . . ." etc. Your attempt to score
points on English is just a disaster, further compounded each time you
try.

Grammar police again... Best you can do... Why don't you actually address the
issue...


One needs to detail the reasons why they are unrealistic rather than
just tossing a vague insult their way and thinking that's enough
justification to ignore them.

like moveon.org

I've just looked at the http://moveon.org/ website and I note:

* Help the Victims in Burma
* With the Democratic candidates still fighting for the nomination,
John McCain has been campaigning virtually unopposed. We've got to let
voters know that McCain will keep us in Iraq for years to come. We
produced an ad to do just that.
* Try the Bush-McCain Challenge, our new online quiz, and see if you
can tell the difference between Bush and McCain!

There's nothing that jumps out at me as being lunacy there.




Move on threatened the democrat hopefuls that if they appeared on FOX
NEWS
they
would pull funding... and work against them... But, and to her credit,
Clinton
did appear on that channel... I watched the interview... It was
revealing
and I
learned more about her in that one interview (with Bill O'Reilly) then
any
other
time I've seen her interviewed... Now... will Obama appear?

Now if the KKK put the same message on their website, would you think
they
were
fine fellows as well? You've got to read the Moveon website over
months
to
get
the real feel for these guys... And I have... Study my enemies and
all
that...

Oh, for God's sake, grow up. Has MoveOn "worked against" Clinton? No -
so scrap that red herring. MoveOn would work for Clinton if she ended up
as the nominee, it's just that simple.

and the dailykos loons...

At Dailykos I see:

"Those on the blog threads who are discouraging people from vigorously
opposing and voting against the Republicans, in the only way that will
affect reality in January, are acting as Republican agents
provocateurs. I know that they will have some idealistic sounding
reason for it, they will have some line, but reality is real*, that is
the real life effect of what they are saying.


THEY put out the "General Betray Us" full page advert in the New York
Times
(spit)... They are Loons... Paid for by Soros...

And the Swift Boaters were the finest citizens on the planet. Right.
remember, it was Atwater that started the personal attack campaigning,
so it is really quite amusing to see the GoP whine when someone would
even come close to doing it to them.

There is no rational reason for someone who doesn?t want the
Bush-Cheney nightmare to continue under a new name to discourage
people from voting for the Democratic nominee. There is either an
irrational reason for them doing it or they are actually working to
continue the policies of the Bush-Cheney nightmare.

See, I, and most conservatives don't see Bush-Cheney as a nightmare...
If
anything they (in my opinion) are not going far enough...

Why don't you volunteer and go have a crack at them yourself?

I'm doing my part pal!

What, shouting out nonsense on the Usenet is "doing my part". Wow, some
hero you are. Still, it makes a change from all that nationalist tripe
you spouted. Enough to make supporters of an Irish republic cringe with
embarrassment.

LOL! I'm doing my part pal... detalils would only give your crowd an angle
of
attack.. so those will remain secret... God Bless Rush! :-)

Newsflash for Ray : "our crowd" don't really give a damn what bunch of
lunatic right wing whackos are trying to do to the Democratic primaries.
It only goes to show how truly desperate the GoP supporters are. Long
may it continue.

Operation Chaos (and right on queue, the Rush Limbaugh show starts playing on my
radio) is working.... Causing chaos in the Democrat party... Your crowd are now
having to expend energy and money fighting each other... While our man is
sitting pretty! LOL!

The six months
before November will be too busy trying to prevent disaster to try to
sort out the moles from the dupes. Until after the election, I?m
considering them all Republican operatives, because they?ll be doing
the same thing."

That sounds highly rational to me.


I never suggested you were irrational... I don't even think that... You
are a
very rational thinking human being... I know your heart is in the
right
place... It's your political slant that we disagree on... Personally,
I
think
you are a fine man!

Clinton represents the more moderate wing of the Democratic
Party...

That, in and of itself is no reason to support Hillary. Obama
represents a clean break from the politics of lobbyists and corporate
interests.


In America, you can't win by just appealing to one wing or the other...

McCain
will take moderate democrat votes... Obama will get all the left wing
votes
and will lose... Even if he gets ALL the black votes, blacks here are
about
13%
of the population... He'll lose... he does not appeal to hispanics...
or
jews...

You can only hope. The figures say otherwise, and unless Dubya can get
the oil companies to drop prices by cutting their profits,

Erm... your candidate, Obama is against the tax "holiday" that would help
working class people... he called it a "token".. ask the fella that has to
fill
his gas tank... He'll tell him where to stick his token... At lest
Clinton
has
jumped on the McCain bandwagon and supported it... But at least she
actually
stands for working class lower-income people... something Obama obviously
does
not!

The gasoline holiday is just silly nonsense.

Ask the fella that's going to get an 18 cent drop per gallon if it's
nonsense...
Obama is an elitists... and can't even comprehend the value of that tax break
to
working class people... People he needs... I guess he'll change his
position
soon.. Just like he did on his lapel pin flag... Remember that? I
certainly
do!

OK, ask the fella whose gas price just went up 20 cents in one day, as
it did here and in most parts of the country. Makes the 18c gas tax
gimmick look even more pathetic, doesn't it?

It's not a gimmick... And it's a start...


It wouldn't mean a thing
except more money for the oil companies.

Clinton's plan is to make the oil companies pay for the tax break... She's a
liberal... Why aren't you supporting her plan then?

Because that is not the mechanism for making the oil companies stand up
and play their part in getting us out of this mess. It is just a scam
that they will recoup in a day or two - another windfall for big oil.

Well then, you should be supporting drilling in Alaska or offshore in
California... And/or supporting building new nuclear power stations so as to
aid the country become less dependent on foreign oil... But you won't will you?


Better for him to ask them why
their refineries are only running at 85% capacity when we have this
ridiculous gas price inflation. 30 cents is about what the price of a
gallon went up by in one single week at the beginning of the month, so
just drop this childish gimmick.

Gimmick... as i said, ask the people paying at the pump is it a gimmick and
you'll get your answer... Obama is an elitists and has no understanding of
the
needs of working class (blue collar) people... He said as much... I mean...
They are sticking to their guns and god... But they are "typical white
people"

You'd get an answer today all right. It would be laughed out of court.
No one, except you, is dumb enough to fall for this fraud.

Yeah sure... your a rich white elitist liberal, you don't have to try and
figure out how to put food on the table and balance the need for gas for your
car to get to work...





as they did
in 2006, McCain has a hard road to travel. Remember, he hasn't even
begun to undergo the scrutiny that will come in the next six months,

That's because we're having too much fun watching the democrat
implosion...
Operation Chaos is a complete success... LOL!!

Sorry, but no. Remember Bill Clinton wasn't confirmed as the nominee in
1992 until well into June, and he still pummelled an incumbent to win
the WH.

INdeed... And yet your democrats are SCREAMING for Hillary to give up the
ghost... And you refuse to count the votes of Floriday and MI... And after
all that whineing your crowd did about "hanging chads" in south Florida...
Apparently, you liberals only want to count votes when they are favourable to
you... How sad for democracy!

No they are not. Hillary will step down when she chooses - Obama has
even told her as much.

LOL!!! She's not going anywhere! She just won with 40% in WV... She got the
Reagan democrats as well... She has the momentum and I think will go on to win
the nomination...

Six months is plenty of time to show McCain up
for the doddering old man he is.

Just like you showed up Reagan? He was in his 70's when he became President and
he was a damn fine president!

Only today he was trying to be a green
environmentalist and implicitly criticizing Dubya's foot dragging on the
environment. Tomorrow he goes to the NRA. Somewhere he is going to have
to actually define a position because he cannot continue to espouse the
liberal centrist and the far right at the same time. He needs to stand
for something.

I've my issues with him... he's not conservative enough for me, but he's what
we got... And at the end of the day, I don't want a democrat president...



Just wait until Obama turns his attention onto McCain - you will
really see how old and inconsistent your candidate is.

Hillary has done all the damage we need... Operation Chaos was perfectly
executed and continues to force liberal against liberal... Obama V
Hillary...
Costing the dems moola and time... While our candidate gets to sit on top
laughing and resting all the while... LOL!!!

Operation Chaos is a pathetic joke. It has achieved nothing, other than
to make Rush look even more fat and stupid than he already is. You are
imagining yourself as way more important than you really are.

It's a success: See here:
http://www.thedailyconservative.net/2008/04/23/operation-chaos-a-major-success-in-pennsylvania/

http://grizzlygroundswell.com/archives/1838

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_040808/content/01125108.guest.html


he doesn't have either the IQ or the patience to cope.

What's his IQ? What about Obama and Clinton?

Well he finished 894th out of 899 in his class at the Naval Academy, and
he managed to lose FIVE jets over Vietnam (I guess that's why they
allowed Dubya to hide out in the TANGO - to save the Air Force money).

Clinton was at the top of her class at Yale Law school, Obama was
President of the Harvard Law Review. I rest my case.

<Oh dear> is that the best you can come up with? I mean... come on...
Even
*I* could come up with better then that and I'm your political opponent
FFS!!!

Oh, were you first in class at Yale Law School? Gosh, you'd never know
it from these inane ramblings of yours. What can you come up with that
is better? Go on, I challenge you.(And no YouTube, please. That's for
middle schoolers).

http://www.csbsju.edu/USPP/Bush/Bush-IQ-Myth.html

Here's a link I found while looking things up you might find interesting:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-obama-quiz,1,7405874.triviaquiz



He is not even
certain to garner the right wing of his own party to support him.

I'm a right winger... and I'm supporting and working for him... Why?
Because
the alternative is much worse!!!!

As of today 82% of those polled belive that Dubya is leading the country
in the srong direction. 82%!


Source?

NBC News tonight. I thought you watched all these sources?

Not that channel...


Feel free to go out and mingle with your 18% fellow believers.


I'm working for the majority... Your the loon leftie...

For the last time, it's "YOU'RE the loonie leftie".

Clearly you are merely the semi-literate neo-fascist wingnut.

Have a nice day!

Ray

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