Re: Irish Electricity


"Duck" <none@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>"Si" <Fl@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:43cbb0fb$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> "Duck" <none@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >*There is the fantastic option, apart from theorising about the
>> >satellite belt Clarke also thought of the space elevator, basically a
>> >tunnel to space held up by centrifugal force, then he was aware that
>> >no material then could support it but apparently there is now.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Aw bless you are talking about ickle space tethers.
>
>*I wasn't, Clarke's was a space elevator. I wasn't aware of space tehters
>until now.
>
>



Yes the elevators run up and down the tethers. The present designs are little
more than rockets on rails. So why bother with the rails?



>*Well NASA is funding the research and both the US and Japan are intending
>commercial production of the material for other means.
>
>It's supposed to be 4 times stronger than is required.
>



There is a long way from lab to real world applications then there is an
even longer leap for tether applications. The material is still imature.
I have not read any stuff that leads me to believe there is a real world
application in the offing. Mind you I missed last years conference. Think
about it you would have to have a material that is flawless on a molecular
level for hundreds and hundres of miles. It's a hell of a target but more
power to their elbow if they hit it.



>
>> Interesting to see how these thethers would react to an airliner.
>>
>*It's thinner than paper if it broke half would fly up to space and the
>other half fall like heavy ticker tape.
>
>


I was thinking more of the economic impact. Putting those things up is going
to be a challenge in itself. The dollar value of such an installation would
not be insignificant. Consider that your average launch cost, depending on
vehicle is anywhere from 50 million to 450 million.


>
>
>> As for dumping the nuclear waste in space its a go-er but you need to
get
>> access costs down to fractions of a cent/lb as opposed to the current
>$1000's/dollars
>> per pound.
>>
>*But in the future you may not be able to put a price on conservation,
>besides it expensive the way it's treated at the moment.
>


No argument from me but storing it in deep mines is cheaper by a couple
of orders of magnitude than launching it.


>
>
>
>> A more interesting option maybe to build a big energy farm on the moon.
>Storing
>> the crap on the moon would be like dumping ice cubes in the artic. What
>form
>> you transmit the energy back to terra firma will be the key bit. A fat
>microwave
>> beam might fry a few too many accidental chickens.
>>
>*That seems even more expensive, just chuck it into space with the other
>rocks.
>


The beauty of the moon is that there is a range of minable near earth asteroids
that are more likely to contain useful material that the earth is. One can
get to them easier from the moon or the lagrangian points which is another
option. The energy to get from the moon to them would be trifling compared
to getting from the earth to the moon. Or riding up your escalator. The engine
the lofted the boys off the moon is in the foyer of my office. It is somewhat
underwhelming.


>>
>*I just read up on the tether and it seems both economically and physically
>possible, can't understand your pessimissim. What is you work at anyway?
>

Fair cop gov. Banged to rights... I make rockets.
In fairness I am not that pessimistic about it. I think it is one option
for future space access. It is a long way off though. I also don't like the
fixed nature of it. There is an old joke that electrical engineers make money,
mechanical engineers make weapons and civil engineers make targets. That
would be one big target and pretty easy to hit too. Plus there would be the
political ramifications of 'owning' one of those things. There are better
options that rely on more traditional approaches. Rocket based combined
cycle engines, which if you believe the conspiracy theorist, are already
in operation with some black programs.

The only real way to get the access price down is let the privateers at it
and get the governments out of it. That won't happen any time soon. There
needs to be a paradigm shift somewhere.





Si



"Bog snorkler extraordinaire"










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