Re: The De Menenez Cover-Up gets under Way


Michael O'Neill wrote:
>
> Perhaps you are approaching muppet status, but I'll persevere for a
> little longer.
>

I don't remember offending you. I would hold the invective and the
attempts at ridicule if what you are after is a rational discussion. I
can oblige a flame fest too, as long as it's understood that two or
more can play that game, and that it seldom serves the truth, fun as it
may be.




> There was NO INDICATION THAT THIS MAN WAS ABOUT TO COMMIT MURDER!!!!!
>
> None.
>
> Whatsover.

You overlook that while you know now that De Menendes was an
electrician on the way to work, the triggermen didn't. Small detail,
right?

In America we call that Monday morning quarterbacking. That is
projecting the knowledge of how things turned out onto the actors in
the events before the events played out. And chastizing them for not
having known at the time what we know now. It's wholly unreasonable.
When a historian does that, he or she is booed out of the room. Lay
people get away with it constantly, doing no harm other than to their
argument.

You forget that the killing was the result of the combined actions of a
team. In a tactical team people rely on each other to make life and
death decisions. The marksmen, it appears, were not the assessors of
the danger De Menendes posed, other people assessed it, and apparently
communicated to the triggermen the wrong assessment of the electrician.
The assessment was itself a work in progress, with a tendency to err
on the side safe to the public, not the suspect.

You also forget that "about to commit murder" in that case would not
entail a visible action like swinging an axe, brandishing a gun, or
wielding a grenade. Terrorists merely lay down a ticking backpack on
the ground or put a hand in their pocket the instant they are about to
commit murder. It means that to wait for an indication to commit
murder would have been foolish in this case.



>
> And despite yoru assertion that such would provide a free get out of jail
> pass for anyone who killed a person who appeared about to commit a
> murder, the courts in England at least do not agree with you.
>

Since you know that so certainly, you must know of a case where that's
what happened; can you give examples, cites, or references to support
that in England to kill when facing unjustifiable lethal force is a
crime?

It would be good to know if that is only your opinion or an actual
fact.



> IN fact they don't even like people shooting intruders in their house
> late at night, even where they might be in fear of their lives.
>

That is besides the point.

An intruder that comes to take your TV and looks scary with his ski
mask, deserves punishment but not killing.

The question is when one faces or sees someone facing unjustified,
criminal lethal force. Let us not stray from the essence of the point.




> Now do brush up on your recent decisions, there's a good chap and stop
> presenting this unwarranted killing as anything other than a murder.

Your bellicose tone does not irritate me, or convince me. I was hoping
for a reply attempting the latter not the former.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The De Menenez Cover-Up gets under Way
    ... >>> Murder is intentional, knowing, unjustifiable homicide. ... >>> The killing of the Brazilian electrician doesn't fit, ... There was NO INDICATION THAT THIS MAN WAS ABOUT TO COMMIT MURDER!!!!! ...
    (soc.culture.irish)
  • Re: NY Times: a "bad lead" led to 2 hour delay
    ... So just lock down campus? ... You don't go in to lock down mode every time a murder happens. ... commit mass murder. ...
    (rec.sport.football.college)
  • Re: The NY Times is at it again, smearing our soldiers.
    ... 2008 -- THE New York Times is trashing our troops again. ... Heart-wringing tales of madness and murder not only made the front ... are five times less likely to commit a murder than their demographic ... the young Americans who join our military are (by self- ...
    (rec.music.artists.springsteen)
  • Re: The NY Times is at it again, smearing our soldiers.
    ... 2008 -- THE New York Times is trashing our troops again. ... Heart-wringing tales of madness and murder not only made the front ... are five times less likely to commit a murder than their demographic ... the young Americans who join our military are (by self- ...
    (rec.music.artists.springsteen)
  • Re: The NY Times is at it again, smearing our soldiers.
    ... 2008 -- THE New York Times is trashing our troops again. ... Heart-wringing tales of madness and murder not only made the front ... are five times less likely to commit a murder than their demographic ... the young Americans who join our military are (by self- ...
    (rec.music.artists.springsteen)