Re: ChimpzillAhmadinejad Is a leftist Moron


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"Merlin" <johndoe99@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Sep 26, 1:31 pm, Shogun <sho...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
inG%uKi.2767$Hv4.2108@amstwist00:">news:G%uKi.2767$Hv4.2108@amstwist00:


Just as you never answer any questions.


Really? Care to cite three examples of questions I haven't
answered? I don't expect you will even provide ONE!
I rarely make claims! When I do I support them with evidence or I
withdraw them.


Really? Can you cite three examples of questions that you have
answered?

Yes. That's ONE. Actually given by you question marks it two but
nevertheless show me three proper questions you asked me adn if i
didn't answer them I will apologise and answer them. I won't answer
questions which are personal e.g. "what colour/breed is your dog". In
this thread I can't find a proper question by you.

Really? You have just proved you can't.

reALLY? HOW SO?

The reason you can't find a
proper question is because I am imitating your form. After all,
imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Aren't you flattered?

I noticed you were just answering questions with questions but as you can
see that is NOT what I do. Apart from other elements of you "form" which are
unsimilar, I ask people to support their claims. YOU made the claim about me
not answering questions. You as usual failed to support it. Asking you a
question like "can you provide evidence to support this claim" is not making
a claim. Nor is "no I didn't" as if anything it is a counter claim and the
onus is on the original positive claimant. That does not however disallow me
from presenting rebuttal evidence - which I did!


I don't expect you well provide even one. You rarely make claims
because you are an uninformed leftist apologist and all you can do is
regurgitate the same crap that leftists spew day after day after day.

Nope. I rerely make claims because I don't want my OPINION touted as
FACT and I am VERY carefull to actually check out something before I
claim it. Otherwise I make it clear that is is just my unsupported
opinion or my belief.

I still don't know what you mean by "leftist". What do you mean?


you don't make claims because you are a coward and don't have the
courage to stand behind your convictions. Why are you a coward?

thats meant to be an answer is it?

Again you seem to have comprehension problems. I didnt say I NEVER made
claims. I stated I RARELY make claims. One claim I made was in reply to the
claims about the threat of fundamentalists. I claimed Bush was a big pal of
the Saud and Bin Laden family.

I SUPPORTED that claim with evidence.

And where is your evidence to support your claim that I am a
hypocrit or a liar?

Just read your own posts.

this is just more unsupported allegation. where is the evidence?
And who is the one not answering questions now?

Is it?

Yes.

No.
Why is it?

Becsuse you make an allegation that I am a liar and you provide no
supporting evidence.

You are.

Thats just gainsaying.


[snip]


Can you support that with
documentation?

I don't need to you already have by doccumenting your own unsupported
allegation.

What?

It is above . You doccumented it yourself when you made unsupported
allegations about me being a liar. that is the supporting doccumentation!


Why do you answer a question with a question?

I don't always but it appears you are doing so to try avoiding
supporting you own claims!


I am doing as you do. Why don't you like it?

Who says I don't like it? And you are not doding as I do! I asked you a
question in order for you to provide to support YOUR claims about
fundamentalists. You resorted to ad hominem. I asked you to poroviede
evidence for the ad hominem (even though it is off topic). YOU Failed on
both counts.
And I don't ONLY ask questions. I also make statements.

Why are you a liar?

I'm not!. This is just unsupported allegation again.

You are.

Can't you at least try to support your allegations in some way? You are
inept at debating if you can't supply ONE piece of evidence to support your
posiution.


Why do you support the ideals of dictators like Ahmadinejab?

I don't! where have I?

You do!

No i don't! But again YOU are the one claiming I do. It isnt for me to prove
the negative.

You: There are Pixies and unicorns on the Whitehouse lawn
Me: Are there? Can you prove it?
You: Can you prove there aren't?

See the difference?



Are
you also a nazi sympathizer?

Nope.

Opinion is otherwise.

Whatever that means it isn't proof they i am a NAZI sympathiser as you
claim.



Do you believe the holocaust happened?

Depends on what you mean by the "holocaust". I can think of four
historical events which are referred to as a holocaust.


Why are you lying again? Why are you a Jew hater? Why are you a bigot?

I'm not. there are at least four which are historical and to which
historians refer.

Why can't you answer yes or no? Why do you shy away from the holocaust
of WW2, which you know damn well is what I was referring to?

Well I don't! If you bothered to read my postings you would note reams of
material on the WWII holocaust. Your attempts to link me with holocaust
deniers are pathetic . i have a record of opposing them. Indeed the vitriol
and hatred they spew against jews
is rivalled by the likes of your attitude to Muslims.


Why are you
a prejudiced? Why are you a hypocrite?

When did you last stop beating your wife?
When you eventually get around to learning aboput logical fallacies please
look up "loaded questions" and "leading questions"

The fact that you remain clueless about argument suggests you are not
prepared to actually learn anything about it because I have referred you to
several sources which you can actually read and from which you can learn and
prevent yourself falling into the same errors in the future. But you do not
seem to be capable of doing this.



>


You spew out the same crap
that comes out of the mouth of Ahmadinejab

Really? Can you show where ANYWHERE that I agreed with
ANYTHING Ahmadinejab stated?

Whether you agree with him or not is insignificant.

Actauallly it is THE whole point you are making! Now you are only
contradicting yourself! On the one hand you state I say the same
thing and on the other you say I don't! How can Iu state sometihing
that I support if I don't actually believe it and say i don't
believe it?


So then you do agree with the Chimp of Tehran.

I don't know what you are getting at. Why don't you actually state
each point he stated one by one and ask me if I agree with any?
Im not aware what you are saying I agree with.


Why are you lying again?

Yoyu can't show ANYWHERE where I agreed with anything he siad. That isnt a
lie.



> By the way please look up "guilt by association" . If I happen to
like
a portrait or music Hitler liked that doesnt mean I am a NAZI


Why do you make such foolish statements? Is it because you are a fool?

Again you presuppose and laod the question. Please look up @guilt by
association@


Why do you support the
execution of Iranian homosexuals?

I never stated tha anywhere and you can't show I did. That makes you a liar!



Where did I ever state I supported that? i fact I suspect that YOU
support the death penalty. Do you?


Why are you shifting the focus of the topic? Is it because you know you
are a liar?

Because I never stated it and you refused to deal with that! And you agree
with the death penalty don't you. I however would not agree with it for
homosexuals or anyone else for that matter.



Why do you want Iran to have nuclear
weapons. Are you a war monger?

where did I state Iran should have nukes? I cant recall stating it
anywhere.How can I answer a question based on a false premise of
something I didnt state?


Why do you deny the fact that you are a muslim apologist? This is only
more gainsaying on your part.

No it isnt! In order to be a Muslim apologist one would have to accept that
Muslims are bad people that do bad things only because they are muslims. I
do not believe this for Jews Blacks Germans Irish Christians Africans or any
other similar religious or racial or ethnic or cultural group. Why do you
believe it only for Muslims? And given that you do what do you think of Bush
being big pals of dictator Muslim fanatics?




What purpose does it serve to expand the
number of nuclear weapons in the world?

Not much really. Unless it is in fighting aliens form Space. In fact
it serves those who have them not to allow others have them but I
would like the US and Russia Israel South Africa Pakistan and North
Korea all to disarm nuclear weapons.


Space Aliens? Why are you making up fantasies?

I'm not. You asked wht they could be used for. Apart from being invaded from
space they are of little use as far as I can see. Which begs the question
why does the US have so many?

Are you mentally
deficient? Who mentioned space aliens? Why are you shifting the focus
again? Are you an idiot or just attempting to call attention to
yourself?

It is a valid answer to your question.



Why are you in favor of placing
nuclear weapons in the hands of dictators and fanatical islamic
mullahs?

Where did I state I was?

Where did you state that you didn't?

You are falling into the fallacy of @proving the negative" again and of
@shifting the burden@ . Please don't try to replicate the writing style of
someione who actually knows how to logically argue when you seem so
deficient in actually learning from you continuous mistakes and
contradictions.



You spew out many of
the same slogans and propaganda.

Which ones? Have you ANY examples?


Don't you know what you post?

Cant you support your own allegations? It isnt for me to prove myself
guilty of something I didnt commit? It is for YOU to support your own
accusations!


Why don't you have to prove your statements and expect everyone else to
prove theirs?

I do but note again ***Shifting the burden*** and ***Proving a negative***

YOU made the claim that I posted something. I didnt post it but it is NOT
for me to show I didnt and you cant shift the burden on to my shoulders. It
is for you to show I did post what you claimed was propaganda. Otherwise you
can be asking me to prove unicorns and space aliens are not meeting the
President right now.
Don't you read what you place here?

That is supposed to be supporting evidence is it?

Then you admit that you do not read what you post?

No. \I submit that you have not supported the suggestion that i post
propaganda.

[snip]



Where is your dictionary? Did you look up the definition? Do you even
know what a dictionary is? Do you get all of your information from
Wikipedia? Do you have any real books?

It seems to me I am more widely read than you but it isnt for me to
provide a definition for you. In fact I dont think @leftie@ is a
dictionary word. And if it is then I don't know if you subscribe to
that definition.


Why don't you think it is a word? Do you think Webster is a liar too? Do
you think all publishers of dictionaries are liars? Did you look it up?
Why didn't you look it up? Are you to lazy to look it up? Are you
fearful that you are a leftist? Why are you afraid of the truth?


Note I stated "leftie" not "leftist". But it isnt for me to look it up since
I didnt claim I was one.


What according to you for example is the "political left"? do we even
know wto what you are referring? People claimed for example that John
Paul II was a "right wing" Pope. But one can argue that the Pope is
the centre and people are right or left of him. So we should be clear
about what we mean.


Who mentioned the Pope?

I did in realtion to demarking the definition of a political mileau.

Who mentioned space aliens?

I did as an example of proving the negative.

Why do you shift the
focus of the topic and gainsay with your space people and other
oddities?

It isnt shifting the focus. It is giving an example of your inept argument
style!1 You claim I post prropaganda. I say I didnt and ask you for proof .
You say prove I diodnt post it. One may as well say "prove aliens do not
exist" or "prove tarot or astrology does not work"

Who do you mean by WE??

Isn't that meant to be "whom" Mr "Webster" ?


Sadly you are not since you refuse to clarify what you mean by calling
me a "leftist".


Sadly you are a leftist, and because you don't want to face it, you
attempt to use ad hominem and gainsaying to shift the burden of proof.

LOL. You really don't learn do you.






I call you a leftist because that is what you are.

That's what I claimed your definition was! You definition of
"leftist" is "anyone I call a leftist is one"

Not a very objective definition is it?

In your case, it is.

That is just gainsaying and re affirming that you can't supply a
definition other than your own OPINION as to what a leftist is
makes someone a leftist.


Do you really know what gainsaying is?

Yes.

Most likely not!


Well you are the one who says gainsaying can be employed to shift the
burden. I await how you can explain that when you cant even employ logic.


Aren't you the one that believes
in OPINION polls as gospel truth?

Nope. They are only polls of opinion. And who said I believe the
Gospel is absolute literal truth? would that not be fundamentalist of
me?


Now you are hypocritical again!!!!! You have consistently referred to
opinion polls, and now you deny it. Why? Are you a liar?

I dont deny referring to them. But referring to them and claiming that a
poll is absolute truth are two different things. And I don't think I
constantly referred to them. I may have referred to two or three in the last
month. I would not think more than that . Ill bet you cant cite four I
referred to but I stand corrected if you do. I do not think you will even
rise to supporting your own assertion here either. You are clearly inept.



I believe in information which can be presented as evidence and
validated by several methods. You can ask how reliable my sources are
if you wish. Sadly you seem to supply no sources.


What methods?

Well one I referred to was the cluster sample survey. Your knowledge of
statistics is probably too weak to understand but it is reliable. Stratifies
and other sampling methods would be another. Thats just for statistics. But
ther are other methods for validating what you claim.One woudl to be to
provide supporting evidence from at least two decent sourtces. In spite of
your claiming to ape my style you completly fail on this account! If I make
a calaim I support it or withdraw it.

It meets the Beacon test? It is in agreement with your
opinion?

Nope. In agreement with several valid sources. If you care to show ANY
claims I have made I doubt you will be able to show they were unsupported.
If they were I am quite happy to withdraw thenm as I have ocassionally for
other people and if and when I located the evidence I re entered the claim.


Why are you a hypocrite?

havwe yu any examples of hypocracy from me? Allegations are not
examples! Please supply a quote in which I say people should believe
in something and behave in a certian way and then later another quoite
where I advocate the opposite for myself. I doubt you will do it since
it isn't true.

Why are you back-paddeling? Is it because you cannot prove your own
allegations?

Im not and it is because you cant support yours.





Saddam became President
of Iraq. And you supported him! and Suharto in
Indonesia. and Pinochet in Chile. And so on... there is
a long list.

Yes. You only know that Saddam became dictator of iraq and
you proclaim the U.S. supported him, but you don't know
why, and if you did know why, you wouldn't understand it.

Oh so now you are watering down the principle about self
righteous dictators and fundamentalists. Saddam was self
righteous but you now add in "there were reasons to support
him nevertheless". well then educate us! And if being self
righteous or being a dictator isn't enough to oppose
someone then why do you claim it as the sole reason for
opposing Iran's president? THAT is my point!

You are obviously quite naive. Saddam wasn't supported. He
was used. Are you that dense?

You are obviously avoiding the question! When Saddam was in
charge of Iraq and usiong chemicals against tyhe Kurds the US
traded with him and shook his hand. There were no standards
with respect to being a dictator. The Us subsequently made big
pals with their fundamentalist chums in saudi.

You are obviously a dunce.

Attacking the person rather than the argument they make is a sure
sign that you are losing the argument.

What makes you an authority on argument?

I don't claim that I am right or argue fromn authority! Thats the
whole point! I SUPPORT my position by reference to widely accepted
STANDARDS on debate and logical argument. Any search of @logical
fallacy@ and @ad hominem@ should put you straight on that.


Where have you supported your position?


Sjow me any position I have taken and I ll show you wher I supported it!

You never support your position.

that is plainly untrue. I can cite several examples. For example Bush being
big Pals of the SAud family . Would you like me to repost the support for
that?


You never answer questions. You have no position. There you are
hypocritical again. Why do you continuously lie?

There is a big difference between accusing someone of something and proving
it. You hawever are doing a great job of proving yourself inept at argument!



I am not asking you to believe my OPINION. It is established fact that
you can go and check.


Why would anyone believe you?

As I justy toild you you don't have to. Go and check out the supporting
evidence. Don't believe anythiong just because I state it. go and check it
out!

I have shown you poictures of Bush kissing Sauds of the business
arangenmdents between them. You are like a WWII Holocaust denier. You keep
saying it isnt true when the evidence is there in front of your face that
Bush is a pal of the Bin Laden Family and the Sauds.



Here let me help you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin:
"argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of
replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to
an irrelevant characteristic about the person making the argument or
claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or
producing evidence against the claim. It is most commonly used to
refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad
personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an
argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument. A
reductio ad Hitlerum argument can be seen as a special case of an ad
hominem argument, since these arguments are attacking something
supposedly said or supported by Adolf Hitler, who is usually
considered to have been an evil person.

[end quote]



I refer you to several examples from you posts above.

You do not know how to argue it appears.

Then you do get all of your information from Wikipedia?

No I don't I referred you to several other sites on logical argument before.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html
http://www.philosophicalsociety.com/Logical%20Fallacies.htm







Why don't you
use a reputable source?

Wikipedia is reputable but that is off topic. you have several sources
above. Are you claiming they are all false?

The argument comes from the
person, therefor the person is as valid a target of attack as the
argument itself. Why are you so naive?

This does not logically follow. Ad hominem arguments are always
invalid in syllogistic logic, since the truth value of premises is
taken as given, and the validity of a logical inference is independent
of the person making the inference.

You do not seem to be able to seperate the argument from the person
making it!

When you dont like a message do you always think that shooting the
messenger will somehow prove the message wrong?


Is that more gainsaying on your part? Why do you constantly gainsay?


No actually you should look up "gainsaying" when you are loo0king up
fallacies. you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

[snip]
Why do you always dovetail yourself in on
anothers arguments?

I don't always do that. But I tend not to be the type of person to
claim I am right and tell others how to live. I believe that people
have individual rights. Sometimes when others and/or the State
interfere with those rights I do not like that. I am by this
definition a Liberitarian and you it appears are "statist". Under that
definition it makes you politically left of me!

Yes, you always do that.

No I don't . One counter example will prove you wrong!


Why are
you limp wristed leftist?

I am not the one claiming that the State and federal government should
interfere in individual rights. Who is the leftist now.

[snip]




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