Re: If Invented Today, Would Islam Have a Chance?


"Shogun" <shogun@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Xns995D9C0AD642Shogun@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbeacon@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
rvNgi.1840$%q4.416@amstwist00:">news:rvNgi.1840$%q4.416@amstwist00:

[snip]

Yes, no looting. I said most of the artifacts were put in safety.
Can't you read? of course not, you're a leftist and read/believe what
the left wants you to.



But there is OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary! This isnt like no
WMD! People have actually been arrested in the US with the actual
artifacts on them!
And you deny that because you can't accept being wrong!

[sneaky un listed snippage added baCK IN]

http://www.cronaca.com/archives/001323.html
From Newsweek, an article with pictures of the 30 objects on the
museum's "most wanted" list.

The most-wanted masterpieces were all either ***in the exhibit
halls*** at the time of the looting, or in a single storage room on
the main floor-Room 104.

http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=71062
Joseph Braude, author of "The New Iraq," was released on a $100,000
bond after a preliminary appearance Saturday in federal court. Braude,
28, brought the priceless artifacts into the United States on June 11,
U.S. Attorney Roslynn Mauskopf said.

http://wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/loot-a19.shtml It was only
almost a week after the museum was originally looted that Dr. George
was able to alert archaeologists worldwide to what had been stolen.
The American military authorities had made no effort to prevent the
objects leaving Baghdad or to put in process an international search
for the stolen artifacts.


http://www.post-gazette.com/World/20030427lootingworld3p3.aspVikan is
one of three members who resigned from President Bush's advisory
council on cultural property to protest U.S. failure to stop the
looting of Baghdad's museums and libraries.


TH AABOVCE ARE ALL LEFTIST ARE THEY? Bush appointed leftists did he?


Those would be your words, not mine. You are obviously more
ignorant than I imagined.


Are these not your words:
I didn't surrender to anyone. Did you? I cheered loud and long when
U.S. troops kill 700 insurgents, I cheered loud and long when U.S.
Troops killed and captured many terrorists, I cheered loud and long
when U.S. troops
captured Saddam Hussein, I cheered loud and long when U.S. troops
killed Uday
and Qusay, and when U.S. troops toppled the Taliban in a few short
days. Every
time U.S. troops kill a terrorist or terrorist supporter, I cheer
for them.


thread : Iraqi Imam wants coalition bullets up his ass..

These people, actually, are not really even worthy to be called
pukes. Worms and maggots are more useful than they are. These scum
would rather have
those butchers in power, and, then blame the US for all the world's
troubles.

Thread: The U.S. is an Idiocracy message
message 368
The rational response is that Ambassador Sumaidaie could care less
if you and
your family were were beaten, kidnapped, tortured, and killed by IRA
fighters, although it is a pleasant thought.
[end excerpts]

Not very christian in your attitude to others are you? I suppose you
think Christ doesen't care less when peoplw who reply to uoi on the
internet are tortured?

No, those are not my words. Nice try.

So you deny the above quotes?

Yes.

So you werent with Road runner in Herndon VA two years ago and in 2003
before Dayton, Ohio?
Oh look forget it I withdraw the claim you used the word Scum in the above
message or you backed using torture in the other one. The main point is the
overwhelming evidence of looting! Evidence from your own military and
government whicy you deny!LOL


[snip]


Because this isn't soc.culture.china. Are you that stupid??


You cross post to many groups. And you claim Islamic groups ar the
worst suicide bombers who dont do attacks in Iraq but have done them
in Indonesia and elsewhere. Look at the list of killings you posted!
Are they all in Iraq! NO! Who looksstupid now! You cant follow your
own advice. LOL!

No. You look even more stupid.It shows you that islam is a military cult
in the disguise of a religion.

And Scientology isnt? You are now claiming all Muslims are part of a cult
which planning military campaigns and pretending to be religion!

what is your definition of a religion? what is your definition of a cult?
what is you definition of military?

I think people wont be surprised with the implications of your answer.

[snip]


Evasion noted.

What evasion. your one of your claims about a flat earth.


Evasion noted again.

LOL YOU claim Islam claimede a flat earth and cant show it and all you can
say to that is asking you for evidence is evading something. I am pointing
to what you evaded. What do you claim I evaded?



Did you ever hear of WW1, WW2, Sarajevo, Kosovo, Bosnia? Your
evasion noted.

The WW stands for "World War" you idiot! that means it was not
confined to Europe! And you are doing the same as usual. mirroring
the argument . I told you it does not work. Im not the one making
claims about europeans. YOU are the one making claims about a
superiour american culture and how Middle Eastern culture (the
cradle of civilisation no less) is so uncultured illogical and un
civilised! and it isnt for me to prove everything in europe is rosy
as you seem to claim for America. Two wrongs do not make a right!
You cant argue about unjustified deaths in Europe and reason that
that somehow proves that americans are not responsible for Wounded
Knee!

Oh my....tsk...tsk...tsk.....I see name calling. It seems to me that
you frown upon that, especially when you are the one being called
names...dumbass. However, I am glad to note that you do recognize the
superior American culture.

I dont frown upon name calling. I frown upon ad hominem as a
substitute for rational debate! When did Americal Culture begin and
when did it becomse superiour and what constitutes superiority?


Well then, dumb ass fits you perfectly.

LOL! Evasion noted! Can't answer can you?





[snip]... Islam has been around for about fifteen
centuries and christianity for about twenty. Please read what I
write before you reply. You seem to have comprehension problems .
There were Christians for about fifteen centuries before Luther .
thats about as long as Islam has been about. About ten cenbturies
befoer Luther and Luther about five centuries ago. Nothing wrong in
that statement. But if you want exact dates supply them and I will
accept the more accurate version.

Yes, I know you stand corrected. You were wrong as usual.

Where? I stated about ten centuries and about five centuries. if it is
actually 953 years and 468 years I accept the more accurate figure.
The point is it is about 500 years since Kuther and about 1500 years
of Islam and Islam is around for about as long as Christianity was at
the time of Luther.


Oh come now. You are wrong so often that even you don't recognize it.

Evading the actual point! One cant move from the particular to the general.
Bush might be wrong about lots of things. If he says the sky is blue one can
not claim that it isn't because he was wrong about WMD and Al Queda in Iraq.
Can one?



if you intend
for someone to read what you write, then try to write it so that it
may be read.

It was quite clear. You are the one with comprehension problems. If
you can point our how it is not clear then refer to the original words
and wshow how or where it is unclear. Dont make up false accusations
and not refer to the actual words! So it seemns you make up words I
didnt state and then you deny actual quotes that shogun did state!


I don't need you to be precise, as I do know everything.

" ...before destruction ..A haughty spirit before a fall" where does
that come from knowall? Know what the phrase refers to?


Proverbs 16:18 I am not showing pride, just stating a fact.

"I know everything" isn't showing pride? LOL!


I know
what you will write before you write it. it is my gift. I also
understand what you intend to say, even though you don't.

really. What couour shirt am I wearing? what was my mothers maiden
name? Bet you cant answer that knowall?


What you are asking is what COLOR shirt....you see,

Couldnt answer could you?

I know what you
intend to say. Your mothers maiden name was the same as your maternal
grandfathers name, which was the same as his fathers last name.

Evasion noted! And your evasion doesnt logically follow either. Ms. Dayton
could Marry Mr Ohio and the child be called Ms. Dayton-Ohio listed under D
and not under O the father's last name.


So? slavery undr the christians. Was that acceptable
to you? Is it accdeptable today? there is nothing in the Bible
about it. My point is that you are assuming the morla high ground.
You see the splinter in anothers eye and neglect the great plank
in your own! A rotten plank on which your argument rests.




Slavery, in the form of involuntary servitude, is not acceptable.

Where does it say that in the Bible? Surely you are aware the Bible
accepts slavery?

It doesn't. I said that.

Where did you say that? On what is it based? Why do you only take
partsof the Bible and neglect other parts?

Because I am human and a sinner. Your excuse?

You are the one claiming to know all.
Im not the one claiming the Bible rejects slavery am I? You are!





Most
people work for an employer and are servants of that employer, and
therefore are under a form of servitude. As you know, references in
the Bible regarding slavery warn the master to be kind to his
servants, as the master is also subject to the Master, God.

Regardless of whether the master is sweet and gentle or mean and
cruel the slave is still a slave and therefore is bereft of freedom
and stripped of human dignity.

Not necessarily.

Yes necessarily. a slave is a slave even if the slave owner is a nice
guy.

Not necessarily.

What is your definition of a slave?

1. One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
2. One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence

It matterns not whether the owner is decent or not for the purposes of
deciding property. Do you really think US courts defined the ownership of
slaves, property or real estate based on whether the owners were "good
folk"?



The importation of African slaves into the New World began shortly
after Columbus' famous "discovery" in 1492. In 1517 the Bishop of
Las Casas, a high official in the Roman Catholic Church, encouraged
immigration to the New World by permitting Spaniards to import
twelve Negroes each [Franklin, John H., From Slavery to Freedom - A
History of Negro Americans, Vintage Books, 1969, page 49.]

Slavery was legal in the United States for almost two hundred and
fifty years. Isn't this a Christian nation founded on God's word,
the Holy Bible?

That is nearly impossible, as the United States will be 231 years old
on July 4, 2007. Again you are caught up in your lie making!!!!!! You
have been debunked again!!!!!

There were United States and other states there BEFORE and after the
constitution of the USA. If you are claiming that the white man doing
slavery and land grabbing only became something to be deplored after
the constitution then why did your constitution accept slavery? LOL!

It was accepted in the south and not the north.

WRONG!

African slavery is so much the outstanding feature of the South, in the
unthinking view of it, that people often forget there had been slaves in
***all*** the old colonies. Slaves were auctioned openly in the Market House
of Philadelphia; in the shadow of Congregational churches in Rhode Island;
in Boston taverns and warehouses; and weekly, sometimes daily, in Merchant's
Coffee House of New York. Such Northern heroes of the American Revolution as
John Han*** and Benjamin Franklin bought, sold, and owned black people.
William Henry Seward, Lincoln's anti-slavery Secretary of State during the
Civil War, born in 1801, grew up in Orange County, New York, in a
slave-owning family and amid neighbors who owned slaves if they could afford
them. The family of Abraham Lincoln himself, when it lived in Pennsylvania
in colonial times, owned slaves.[For Seward, see Doris Kearns Goodwin, "Team
of Rivals" [Simon & Schuster, 2005], pp.30-31. For Lincoln: "RUN away on the
13th of September last from Abraham Lincoln of Springfield in the County of
Chester, a Negro Man named Jack, about 30 Years of Age, low Stature, speaks
little or no English, has a Scar by the Corner of one Eye, in the Form of a
V, his Teeth notched, and the Top of one of his Fore Teeth broke; He had on
when he went away an old Hat, a grey Jacket partly like a Sailor's Jacket.
Whoever secures the said Negro and brings him to his Master, or to Mordecai
Lincoln ... shall have Twenty Shillings Reward and reasonable Charges"
[Pennsylvania Gazette, Oct. 15, 1730]. Mordecai Lincoln (1686-1736) was
great-great-grandfather of President Lincoln. ]

There were slaves in Mass. since 1620!
http://www.slavenorth.com/

LOL! Learn something about your own history before criticising others.
Plank!

The constitution accepted it! Saying some states passed laws against it
doesn't detract from that! And before the constitution it was there!



slavery did not officially end in the USA until the thirteenth
amendment to the U. S. Constitution was finally ratified on December
6,1865 In what was later to become the United States of America it
begin in 1619 when twenty Africans were off loaded from a Dutch ship
at Jamestown, Virginia and sold into slavery
- Franklin, John H., From Slavery to Freedom - above



Those among us who remain dedicated to the Bible, especially African
Americans, should realize that while it may be morally correct in
some cases, the Bible's unrelenting endorsement of slavery is
certainly immoral.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) for you and other muslims, the
Bible is inerrant, as opposed to the false prophecies of the koran.

Who says I am a Muslim or believe in the Koran?

Who cares?

Apparently you do since you stated it! But no doubt you are accustomed to
stating things you don't actually care about and cant support! Like WMD and
Alo Queda and looting in Iraq?




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