Re: American Cowards

<hawat.thufir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1130403783.582268.253210@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Acharya wrote:
> ..
>> The goal in the world is stability based on basic universal
>> individual human rights.
>
> There's no such thing as universal individual human rights. For any
> "universal" there's at least one culture where it doesn't apply. Do
> you mean Western, as in European, going back to ancient Greece?
> Anyhow, who says it's the "goal of the world"? Was there a vote on
> that? By stability, does that mean that the only superpower is the US?


The right to live is the most basic of universal human rights. Then there is
the right to education, a decent livelihood, and a moral government. These
are also called inalienable rights.


>> Historically the U.S. is not a colonizer but a liberator and
>> builder of other countries.
>
> "BUSH: Let me comment on that. I'm not so sure the role of the United
> States is to go around the world and say this is the way it's got to
> be. We can help. And maybe it's just our difference in government, the
> way we view government. I want to empower the people. I want to help
> people help themselves, not have government tell people what to do. I
> just don't think it's the role of the United States to walk into a
> country and say, we do it this way, so should you. I think we can help.


The US is a pluralistic constitutional democracy based on inalienable human
rights. A government of the people, by the people and for the people. In
order for people anywhere to have their individual human rights, the
dictators and terrorists must be removed.


> [..talking about Russia and Putin..]
>
> We can work with them on security matters, for example, but it's their
> call to make. So I'm not exactly sure where the vice president is
> coming from, but I think one way for us to end up being viewed as the
> ugly American is for us to go around the world saying, we do it this
> way, so should you. Now, we trust freedom. We know freedom is a
> powerful, powerful, powerful force, much bigger than the United States
> of America, as we saw recently in the Balkans. But maybe I
> misunderstand where you're coming from, Mr. Vice President, but I think
> the United States must be humble and must be proud and confident of our
> values, but humble in how we treat nations that are figuring out how to
> chart their own course."
>
> <http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2000b.html>
>
> To someone being invaded the US appears as a tiger of a different
> stripe. Iraq has a long history of being colonized; it's not whether
> or not the US is colonizing Iraq in fact but the appearance, in this
> case. Besides, colonies aren't cost-effective anymore. In a sense,
> free-trade is just a twist on mercantilism, depending on the definition
> and execution of "free".
>
> How much money is Bush prepared to spend to acheive a Western-style
> democracy in Iraq? If the US isn't going to get any money out of it
> then it's a real boondogle. Perhaps Bush's education should've
> included the story of "Brer Rabbit meets a Tar Baby," because he's
> played right in Osamas hand.


The US saves from having a democratic ally in a very oppressive area of the
world. The US does not have to be the global police halfway around the
world.


> I'm not sure what your point is, because the US doesn't have clean
> hands (no country does). Yes, the US has done good things, but the US
> has also done bad things. Geographic isolation has historically
> allowed the US avoid conflicts, but that's an accident of geography
> that doesn't give the US some sort of moral right to go around imposing
> "freedom" on other countries, that's arrogant, and is Bush's point.
> The lesson, perhaps, of 9/11 is that the world is a smaller place and
> that the US can no longer depend on that geographic isololation to act
> as a buffer.


You do not see the big picture. The US was attacked on its soil in 1993 and
1994 by a global terrorist and fascist organization called al-qaeda which
uses materialistic and monolithic religion to enslave entire countries.

>> Pre 9/11 live political debates are not a good source of
>> intelligence.
>
> How's it a source of intelligence, unless you mean a source for this
> discussion?
>
> Bush wasn't yet president and didn't have access to the CIA. Bush
> chose to make WMD's a debating point in the election but failed to keep
> the pressure on Saddam. The invasion of Iraq is evidence of that
> failure.


You ignore that President Bush told Saddam to step down from power
peacefully or by force. War is the result of the failure of all other
remedies to a conflict.


>> I see you yourself are dazed and confused. Keep it to yourself.
>
> I look forward to being enlightened by you as to the mission and exit
> strategy.
>
> ..
>> You must be joking. Real government of the people, by the
>> people, and for the people is done from the bottom up not from
>> the top down.
>
> Heh, sure. But what if those people want a theocracy and reject
> Western ideas about civil rights? Saddam shot or exiled many potential
> opposition leaders, anyhow, so that reduces the chances for a more
> moderate Iraq government. I doubt very much that Bush would be happy
> with what Iraqis would come up with on their own; besides, it'd
> probably be civil war or along the lines of India and Pakistan if Iraq
> was left to its own devices.
>
>
> -Thufir


I see you have not seen or understood their new constitution.


.

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