Re: "circumcision" of vowels in Tatsama words by Jai type Mastaans
- From: analyst41@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:23:02 -0800 (PST)
On Nov 22, 4:06 pm, "M. Ranjit Mathews" <ranjit_math...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Nov 22, 4:11 am, analys...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Nov 22, 2:58 am, "M. Ranjit Mathews" <ranjit_math...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Nov 21, 6:47 pm, analys...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Nov 21, 9:34 pm, tripurant...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Nov 21, 7:34 pm, analys...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Nov 21, 7:14 pm, tripurant...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Thats fine and dandy - but what about a Northern Indian armed forces
officer calling Rameshwaram "Rameshwar"? (I have documented this from
the Hindu).
Individual officers can say anything. But please remember Delhi( in
English) is is Dhilli in Tamil, Hindi etc. Bangla is Bengal (English)
and VangaaLam in Tamil
This officer could have said Rameshwaram if he wanted to (I asume he
was speaking in English) - he was expressing contempt for Tamils with
his Rameshwar and that too in Tamil Nadu (thereby showing his
ignorance also since he was actually expressing contempt for Sankrit).
Curiously, Tamilians complain only about Hindiwalas choices of
pronunciation. There are no complaints when an Anglophile refers to
tutukuDi as Tuticorin or to tanjAvuR as Tanjore.
Yes - the Hindu that has been described as a fossil still writes about
the Coleroon river. But that is just carrying forward an idiom from
the colonial era. Thiruvallikeni instead of "Tripiicane" is probably
as affected as Pataliputra for Patna. The Brits were trying to map
Indian sounds to English the best way they could.
tiruvanantapuram has some syllables that are so reduced that they seem
elided to the Anglo ear, making the word sound like [tI*@v@ndo:*@m] to
the Anglo ear but their spelling reduced it even further to
Trivandrum. I don't believe that the English couldn't hear tiru as
[tI*U] or [tI*@]. Even though the vowels after [t] and [d] are the
most prominent ones in the word (longest timings, not highest
amplitude), they drop both vowels. A prominent Malayalam syllable with
a short vowel has a timing like an unstressed English syllable but
less prominent syllables have even shorter timings (so short as to
often be elided in Roman transcriptions), so the ones not short enough
to be elidable should have been heard. There must be some explanation
other than that they heard tiru as tri.
Be that as it may, do even Keralans say thiruvanatapuram any more
while speaking Malayam or while speaking English?
I think very few people would know what uthakamandalam refers to - the
Brits seem to have permanently changed these place-names.
They would have had
to make a determined effect to pronounce thiruchirApalli correctly.
Thats not the case with present day Northern Indians - they can say
"Rameshwaram" pretty easily. They can also say "thiruvidaimaruthoor"
but that would jar Tamilians a little bit - but they can always tell
when a foreign speaker is making a sincere effort to pronounce native
sounds correctly.
The North as a whole is trying to present the (middle to upper caste)
Hindu of the Madhyadesha (Hindi belt or cow belt or BIMARU) as the
orthonormal Indian in language and culture - and thats what has to be
resisted.
I can't think of an effective method for resisting it. If you
retaliate by calling Delhi Dil or calling Patna Patton, they'll just
ignore it.
I think they have to be made aware that they are offending people when
they implicitly assume that Ganga-Jamuna represents all of India. And
"hyphenated" Indians should take quiet offense when Madhyadesa Indians
"simplify" their names, place names, names of their deities etc. and
correct them.
.
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