Re: Cov ntawv sau lus Hmoob no yuav siv qhov twg?

Just a correction on my earlier statement. I want to retract the
quantity of compound words with the word ua. Just right after
finished posting, the words suddently hit me. There's still uacaag
(why), ualuag (to be together with someone, ualuag moog ua teb uake.)
Well, in that case, there could be more that I just have not thought
of right yet. The standard still applies here, will the new word
alter the meaning of the original words or not?



Moob Lajleeb




On Jun 26, 3:20 am, Moobthaibteb Moobtwmzeej <mooblajl...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Jun 25, 3:07 pm, Tony <avang_...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

mtmt,

Kuv phua lub ntsablug ntawd rua koj saib le qhov kws koj xaav pum
xwb.  Kuv tsi tawmtsaam kuv cov lug.

That's very interesting.  You do have every right to say whatever you
want to say, and I'll leave it at that.  We'll just let the facts that
have already been recorded in this thread tell itself, whether you've
contradict yourself or not.

Le tej laug has, yog yuav paub ces qha peb zag xwb paub lawm.  Dlhau
ntawd ces ca nwg maamle kawm nwg xwb.  Qhovnuav yog paajlug le nooglej
has

Again, very interesting.  The world is flat, the world is flat, the
world is flat, that's three times already and whoever still cannot
understand it must learn through his/her own mistakes.

Kuv twb yeej disect taag lawm, tamsim kuv tsi muaj scientific
explanation vim tsim muaj tug qauv taug.

I guess you totally ignored the infinitive and regurlar action verb
explanation that I've tried to bring in to clarify your foundation.
That's okay, we'll get back to this infinitive and regular verb later.

Lugteb koj ces yog lenuav:  Uazaub, ua-mov, ua deljnum raug sau
lentawd vim yog "uamov" muaj lub cim suab "a" hab tug cim suab "m"
nyob uake lawm.  Yog le ntawd kuv txhajle sau "ua-mov."  Yog kuv tsi
kem tug qauv suab hab qauv cim ces tug nyeemntawv yuav nyeem "uam-ov"
los yeej tau.

Ah, so you were concerning more with the vowel "a" and tone maker "m",
not the vowel "a" and consonant "m", therefore M will have the
privilege of following a hyphen whereas D (which is also can be used
as a tone maker) will only get to follow an empty space (ua dlejnum
instead of ua-dlejnum).  I could be wrong, but I believe this is what
Noogdlej was trying to convey about must think far and wide first
before doing something which cannot be undo.  I wouldn't go as far as
prejudice but there is definitely an inequality of value among the
vowels and consonants in your explanation here.

Are we not trying to create a standard, qauv as you've put it, so
every time this same word happens to be use with another word (word
that falls in line with the specific criteria) will be the same so it
will be less confusing, meaningful, and easier to use?  Was it not you
yourself that dissect the uake to be that ke by itself have no meaning
until combining with ua?  I agreed with you on that point and further
put forth the recommendation that we shouldn’t combine words to be
compound words unless the meaning of the new word which is now a
compound word actually has a different meaning from the original group
of words that were used to combine together to create that compound
word.  I tried to bring in specific criteria of infinitive and regular
verb, yet that got ignored.  In my personal point of view, instead of
coming from the angle of consonants, vowels, and tone maker, I would
rather look at the total picture (total meaning) of the word and see
what would make more sense.  Does ua in this particular word is being
used as verb=do, or is it just an infinitive with no reference to a
particular tense, person or subject?  Ua=do, mov=rice, ua mov=do
rice=cooking rice.  Ua=do, dlejnum=work, ua dlejnum= do work=working.
I’ve posted before that I’m not sure whether if it was because of
laziness or cleverness that our ancestor have decide to shorten some
of our words and yet still carry the same meaning.  Regardless of
what, whether ua dlejnum or ua num, they should still be written
separately because ua can stand by itself and so does dlejnum/num and
still carry the same meaning.  Therefore words such as ua tshais, ua
mo, ua tshoob, ua haujlwm, ua dlaabtsi, etc. then should be written
separately.  In addition to words which we don’t know the real
definition to such as ke, which would make it easier for us to decide
to combine with ua, I’ve also already explained why we should combine
ua and si together to be uasi, because uasi has a totally different
meaning from ua and si.  Other words that would fall in line with this
criteria would be uantej and uaqaab, and that’s it.  So when you want
to look in quantity wise, there should only be four compound words
which begin with ua: uake, uasi, uantej, uaqaab.  The rest should be
written separately from whatever word that will follow this ua.  Of
course, the hyphen should be use when you want to express phrase such
as ua-tshoob-ua-kug, ua-neej-ua-tsaav.  Another word which would fall
in the same situation as ua is yuav.  Yuav should be written
separately from whatever else words except when it comes to laug and
tsum.  You don’t buy old [yuav laug] but you almost [yuavlaug].  You
don’t buy stop/quit [yuav tsum] but you must [yuavtsum].  This is why
when I said whoever that has the talent to do a software program for
word correction could make it to be that when we combine words
incorrectly, it would just indicate with a red line under that word
cautions us that it’s wrong.  It’s wrong because it’s not in
accordance with the standard.  Of course, I could be totally wrong
here too, for relying or rather comparing too much with English, with
the yuavtsum and yuavlaug.

Aside from the prefix and suffix modifier situation, the deciding
factor for me is the total meaning of the new compound word.  Is there
really a significant difference or am I just wanting to combine words
because they look good together—to me?  That’s why it baffles me quite
a bit when I see words such as nyeemtau, lwmyaam, covlug, kuamnrov,
qhatxug, qhwvca, nrhavtau, nplagncauj, pavtxug, etc. etc. etc.

Moob Lajleeb

On Jun 25, 3:07 pm, Tony <avang_...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



mtmt,

Kuv phua lub ntsablug ntawd rua koj saib le qhov kws koj xaav pum
xwb.  Kuv tsi tawmtsaam kuv cov lug.  Txuj kevxaav, philosophical, yog
ib tug txheejtxheem kws xaavtseg, sim moog, hab ntsuag saibseb puas
moog zoo le ntawd.  Phua ntsablug losyog phua ntsiblug, disect =
scientific explanation, le koj xaavpaub ntawd ces ntshai yuav nkim koj
lub sibhawm xwb.  Kuv rovqaab has dlua.  Koj yim phua ces koj yim
tsipaub qhov tseeb.  Qho yaam ntawm lubneej yeej moog zoo lentawd.
Hastxug lug moob le peb thaam nuav ces yog ibqho rua ntawm qhovntawd
ntaag.  Koj yuav phua kuas moog ti lub noob losyog tug caag, lug moob
ces phua hab pav le kuv pav rua koj nyeem ces taag le ntawd lawm xwb.
Koj txais raug kuv qhov lug hastas sauntawv sistxuas ces yog kuv fee
ntau rua yaav taamsim nuav moog rua yaav tom hauvntej es tsi tig saib
yaav taamsim nuav moog rua yaav tomqaab, disect = scientific
explanatioin.

Kuv twb yeej disect taag lawm, tamsim kuv tsi muaj scientific
explanation vim tsim muaj tug qauv taug.  Qhov kuv has nuav yog tsim
kuas tau tug quauv:  1.  Siv kuas raug le lubneej kws moob ibtxwm coj,
tradition.  2. Xaav kuas raug le moob teejtug, culure.  3.  Sau kuas
muaj kuab le kws moob yog ib haivtuabneeg.

Chawtxawb chawrau, standard, tsuas zoo txij le qhov tuabneeg siv
rovqaab lug xwb.  Koj yuav nyam phua ntsablug, phua tsiblug, moog ti
moob ti caag los tuabneeg tsi siv ces nwg yeej tsi zoo tug dlaabtsi.

Thaus tsim tau yaam kws muaj chawtxawb chawraug, standard, ntawd lawd,
koj yuav nyam phua tub phaum lecaag ntxiv los maamle phua moog.
Taamsim nuav peb twb tsi muaj dlaabtsi le, es yuav kuas phua xwb nuas
peb yuav muaj pestsawg hom lug phua?

Le tej laug has, yog yuav paub ces qha peb zag xwb paub lawm.  Dlhau
ntawd ces ca nwg maamle kawm nwg xwb.  Qhovnuav yog paajlug le nooglej
has.

Txuas ntxiv...
kuv yuavluag novqaab teb koj sob lugnoog tomkawg "My standardization
question on your foundation would be if you already established uake,
please tell us why ua-mov and ua dlejnum should be written as the way
you wrote them."

Lugteb koj ces yog lenuav:  Uazaub, ua-mov, ua deljnum raug sau
lentawd vim yog "uamov" muaj lub cim suab "a" hab tug cim suab "m"
nyob uake lawm.  Yog le ntawd kuv txhajle sau "ua-mov."  Yog kuv tsi
kem tug qauv suab hab qauv cim ces tug nyeemntawv yuav nyeem "uam-ov"
los yeej tau.  Koj puas ncu qhov kuv paav txug qhov teebmeem kws Chao
muaj ntawd?  Yog yuav sau "ua dlejnum" le "uanum" xwb es tseg "dlej"
ca los yeej tau.  "uakaam" le koj has los yeej tau tuabyaamnkaus vim
hastas "a" hab "k" yog lub cim suab hab tug qauvntawv lawm ces tsi
muaj tuabneeg nyeem yuavkev.  Qhav ntawd yog qhov kuv ntsuag pum es
txhajle dlhau lug ua kuv qhov chawtxawb chawrau, standard, rua kuv
txujkev sauntawv siscaab hab siv tug cim "-" nuav lug kem lub cim suab
hab tug cim suab.

Ca-sab hastas koj yuav totaub zoo.  Totaub = to qhatxug hastas nwg
nkaag moog rua huv losyog tshaab moog rua saab tom-u.  Taub = taub
dlaaj, taub ntsuab, taub ab, taub twg; lulug taub rua ntawm "totaub"
yog lub taubhau, head, losyog "taub" xwb.  Yoglentawd, thaus koj
totaub lawm, txhais hastas nwg moog rua huv koj lub taubhaub, head and
not "taub hau" or boiled pumpkin.

Happy reading of the Hmong language = nyeem ntawv moob kuas kaajsab.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

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