Re: Rejecting the Euro and the EMU (and the Maastricht Treaty)
- From: ADR <aretzios@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 15:08:04 -0700 (PDT)
On Apr 2, 4:55 am, Nashton <n...@xxxxx> wrote:
On 4/2/10 1:40 AM, ADR wrote:
On Apr 1, 1:27 pm, Nashton<n...@xxxxx> wrote:
Nashton, you made a couple of points that I feel I need to emphasize.
Even if Greece pursued such a policy by either fudging with inflation or
government trade of foreign currency reserves to manipulate money
supply, it's still market manipulation. I don't believe in market
manipulation as it comes back to bite the country that engages in it in
the rear eventually. Since Greece has a very poor record on productivity
and an essentially non existent culture of innovation (so sad, really,
many great minds often resort to working in other countries because of
this fact), we're debating a very ephemerous fix to internal
deficiencies that need to be addressed. Given Greece's record, I doubt
they will ever be addressed, I'm afraid.
A: I believe strongly in market manipulation. I happens every day, in
every country by every government. Every time the Canadian government
decides to increase or decrease money circulation or to increase or
decrease credit availability, it manipulates the market.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The BoC is an arms length
organization from the government, does not manipulate foreign exchange
rates and its principle role is to maintain inflation at or about 2%.
It has never, in all its history, manipulated money supply and demand at
least not to the extend your portending.
Sure...and pigs fly. The Fed in the US has injected trillions worth
of liquidity and it is an organization at ...arms length from the
government, etc, etc, Listen, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would
love to sell. Interested??
As for the rest. Very much like you, I live abroad. I have actually
not worked in Greece, I have been educated mostly and I worked in
anglosaxon societies. I could be as dismissive as you are, if only I
were blind, deaf and mute.
The silly and paternalistic " grab the bull by the horns" aphorism is
only worth a few laughs. It is racist at heart. I assumes that
poorer countries are poorer because the people are not willing to work
hard. They simply cannot "grab the bull by the horns". Even you must
understand how stupid this is. Neither Greece nor any country of the
European periphery is suffering today because the Greeks, Spaniards,
Italians, Irish and Portuguese cannot grab the bull by the horn. This
is a ridiculous notion. (and I thought that the Spaniards were good
in grabbing bulls by the horns).
So, it does not matter how strong a desire somebody has to work and
how many skills one has in the absence of capital and natural
resources (or both). Especially in the present circumstances in which
the Greek government is minimizing its own investment program (to save
money), and in which the GNP is shrinking, mass unemployment is
ensuing, just "grabbing yourself by the bootstraps" or "grabbing the
bull by the horns" are not only misplaced, they are insulting (to
In fact, Greece and the rest of the periphery will be given one more
kick to the groin by the ECB which is expected to raise interest rates
in about 2 months. Maybe, as the interest rates are been increased,
you can come on national radio and say that the people there need to
"grab the bull by the horns"!!!
Here in the US, in facing the crisis, the state has provided a
stimulus package to maintain unemployment at reasonable rates and
increased funding for many programs. The Feb has injected trillions
in the economy and would maintain interest rates at about 0% for some
time until the recovery is self sustaining. ....Let's see what is
happening in Greece: Government outlays will be reduced by 25%, wages
in the public sector will be cut by 11%, unemployment will rise to 16%
(at best) but the central bank, the ECB (for which Greece has no
control over) will be raising interest rates because this is what is
demanded by the German/French/Benelux economies. Of course, none of
these really matter because people can grab the bull by the horns.
Nashton, just get serious. In any conversation for anybody to be
credible, an objective assessment is required. Your view of Greece is
not objective, not at all. One needs to examine what works and what
does not work in a given state and propose solutions.
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