Re: Agamemnon needs assistance

"Mhtsos" <theindigobox@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:viODf.2582$eV6.1682@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Henry Hooray wrote:
>
>> "Mhitsos" <oldbus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:ZntDf.2187$276.302@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>>Henry Hooray wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Mhitsos" <oldbus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>news:isaDf.1879$kz6.886@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Henry Hooray wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Mhitsos" <oldbus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:zJTCf.1225$vo4.510@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Henry Hooray wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Our in the UK resident Greek and Cypriot freedom fighter Agamemnon
>>>>>>>>keeps insisting that I have denied massacres of Greeks by Turks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have many times written that I am perfectly aware of massacres of
>>>>>>>>Greeks by Turks. Naturally, I condemn any atrocity - regardless who
>>>>>>>>the perpetrator and who the victim is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You downplay them in comparison to the Jewish genocide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's sad that you cannot bring yourself to admit that Agamemnon
>>>>>>"downplays" then Nazi murders of the Jews in Europe - by a factor of
>>>>>>six to one.
>>>>>
>>>>>And its even sadder for you not being able to admit that there have
>>>>>other genocide's too.
>>>>>Equal to the genocide of the Jews or even bigger.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Didn't I just mention any other genocides in the missive that you just
>>>>responded to?
>>>>
>>>>I didn't, for instance, mention Mao's and Stalin's terror regimes,
>>>>genocides in Africa?
>>>>
>>>>In other word, I don't just _admit_ there are other genocides, I
>>>>actually mention them - I mention them here, but why do I bother: you
>>>>just persist in your stupid denials.
>>>>
>>>>What planet are you living on, Mhtsos?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Here is one other genocide: 7-9 millions http://tinyurl.com/a962x
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And as for your link: I must admit I didn't read it in detail, but it
>>>>struck me that this was yet another anti-Semitic attempt at both
>>>>discrediting Jews and also to downplay The Holocaust. Just the sort of
>>>>thing that you relish, isn't it, Mhtsos?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>How would you see the Germans if they would have acted like the
>>>>>>>Turks?
>>>>>>>" No apologies, no compensation and on top of that denying that any
>>>>>>>genocide took part.
>>>>>>>Add to this further invasions, occupying land, killing civilians and
>>>>>>>making millions homeless?
>>>>>>>If you add to what happen to the Greeks also what happen in the 80's
>>>>>>>to the Kurds.
>>>>>>>Not only are there 200.000 Greeks who cant go back but there are over
>>>>>>>a million Kurds who cant go back.
>>>>>>>What about the 200-300.000 Greeks who where forced to leave
>>>>>>>Constantinople in the 50's?
>>>>>>>No apologies no compensations.
>>>>>>>It's a long line and and won't end.
>>>>>>>If the sinners don't repent and pay for their crimes or at least pay
>>>>>>>compensation then they will do it again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would dearly love to see Turkey admitting guilt in a number of
>>>>>>areas.
>>>>>
>>>>>Name a few
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Who was it who recently said: "We are in soc.culture.greek" :o)
>>>>
>>>>But let me just mention their occupation of most of Greece, and their
>>>>inhuman and barbaric rule there. One of the Greek - or, to be more
>>>>precise, Cretan - resistance leader that I admire is the famous
>>>>Daskalogiannis.
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps I should write and write and write and write and write and write
>>>>again and again and again and again and again how terrible the Turks
>>>>were to him, and to people like him, and how I hate every living Turkish
>>>>man, woman and child because of the sins their ancestors committed.
>>>>
>>>>I shall hopefully never stoop that low. But I do not in the meantime
>>>>wish to share in Agamemnon's putrid hatred of all Turks, all men, all
>>>>women, all children.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>But I do not in the meantime wish to share in Agamemnon's putrid
>>>>>>hatred of all Turks, all men, all women, all children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You really cannot imagine, can you, that Agamemnon would ever, under
>>>>>>any set of circumstances, stop his self-destroying hatred, do you,
>>>>>>Mhtsos?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I take your non-answer as a No, shall I, Mhtsos. In other words, people
>>>>like Agamemnon and yourself will always and forever hate Turks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yet he keeps insisting that I am a "Holocaust denier", which is a
>>>>>>>>bit thick, coming from somebody who claims that "only" - the most
>>>>>>>>callous "only" I have seen -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think perhaps 2-3 million but not 6.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Aha - another revisionist. Speaks volumes about you, Mhtsos.
>>>>>
>>>>>No it is very normal that the victims exaggerate the figures and the
>>>>>perpetrators either deny or make the figures smaller.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So the figure of 6 million came solely from Jews? Absolute rot, Mhtsos.
>>>>Your insistence that Jews didn't suffer as badly as they actually did,
>>>>your perseverance with historic revisionism, and your unwillingness to
>>>>condemn outright Agamemnon's patent anti-Semitism, is beginning to make
>>>>it all look as if you actually support him in his racism.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Who was a jew according to the jews and who was a jew according to the
>>>>>nazis?
>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/d3ana
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Perhaps this explains why you do not totally distance yourself from
>>>>>>Agamemnon's "The Jews are babykilling SCUM worse than Hitler".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>One out of Russians or 20 millions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I know. Now that we're at it, let's not forget Mao's and Stalin's
>>>>>>murderous regimes. I'm sure there are many more atrocities that people
>>>>>>like you and me must condemn, demand reparations for and so on,
>>>>>>because if not then you seem to be saying that you are I are
>>>>>>'racists'? So I look forward to reading your condemnation of all of
>>>>>>these and more - and if you miss out any, then by your omission you
>>>>>>have shown yourself up in the same way that you are currently trying
>>>>>>to 'expose' me, aren't you, Mhtsos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And of course there are the massacres - nay, genocides - in various
>>>>>>places in Africa. By your own faltering logic, Mhtsos, you really must
>>>>>>now - this instant - condemn these.
>>>>>
>>>>>We are in soc.culture.greek and you have been always downplaying the
>>>>>genocide of other people in comparison to the genocide of the Jews.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So now I am "downplaying" the very massacres and genocides that I have
>>>>just mentioned above???
>>>>
>>>>No, I am not "downplaying" any massacre, any genocide, any atrocity. I
>>>>view them all with revulsion and disgust.
>>>>
>>>>You, Mhtsos, on the other hand, is very busy not just "downplaying" one
>>>>particularly well documented atrocity, but you even want to make it look
>>>>as if it were less than half the crime it really was. You should be
>>>>thoroughly ashamed of yourself, Mhtsos!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>For you the real genocide has been the one of the Jews because we had
>>>>>this conversation before when I pointed to you out that the nazis
>>>>>murdered 20 million russians and you said that the genocide of the Jews
>>>>>was worse because the nazis murdered most European Jews.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Personally, I do think it is worse, and for this reason, which is
>>>>actually both simple and easy for anybody who can read.
>>>>
>>>>There was not a Nazi policy of murdering every Russian in the world (no
>>>>more than there ever was for instance a Turkish policy of murdering
>>>>every single Greek in the world), but there was a Nazi policy of trying
>>>>to remove every Jew from the planet.
>>>>
>>>>Incidentally, there is every possibility that in history Stalin was
>>>>responsible for the deaths for more Russians then the Nazis were.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Well most Danish Jews survived the 2 ww
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Which was mainly thanks to the Danish people, and had absolutely nothing
>>>>whatsoever to do with the Nazi policy of eradicating the Jewish race
>>>>from this planet.
>>>
>>>What the *** you are talking about? Hitler wanted to eradicate the
>>>slavic, the yellow and black race too from the planet.
>>>And he did murder 20 millions Russians.
>>>Would he have won the war he would have exterminated ALL of them.
>>>
>>>>As you probably know (but find it impossible to admit to yourself), the
>>>>Danes smuggles the vast majority of the Jews in Denmark across to Sweden
>>>>immediately prior to the Nazi attempt to round them up and send them to
>>>>concentration camps.
>>>>
>>>>But as usual you are busy trying to find reasons why the Jews didn't
>>>>suffer all that much, aren't you, Mhtsos. You really are beginning to
>>>>disgust me, Mhtsos.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not more nor less then the other great genocide's.
>>>The Armenian or the one in Rwanda just to give you 2 examples.
>>>You are disgusting by putting the genocide of the Jews above all other
>>>genocide's.
>>
>>
>> The point is that I am not differentiating. The problem here is that your
>> friend Agamemnon wishes to re-write history, and the vast majority of
>> people in this world who have an understanding of The Holocaust that
>> differs from his (as you well know, most people automatically think of
>> the Nazi murders of the Jews) he calls a Holocaust denier and a racist.
>>
>> All this while he himself totally denies the magnitude of this particular
>> atrocity, which is understandable in view of his pronounced
>> anti-Semitism: "The Jews are babykilling SCUM worse than Hitler.".
>>
>>
>>>Most Armenians who were living in Turkey 1916-1918 got murdered.
>>>Both those genocide's were tragical and no one was worse or better then
>>>the other.
>>>The Jews suffered often longer before they got murdered.
>>>That's the only difference I see.
>>
>>
>> And I agree, by and large.
>>
>>
>>>You are disgusting Henry
>>
>>
>> An entirely mutual feeling.
>>
>>
>>>>>Many Jews also left Europe AFTER the war to South America and were
>>>>>counted as dead by the body counters later on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Oh dear, and all the historians missed that simple fact. How stupid they
>>>>all are, with the exception of your fellow revisionists like the
>>>>Hitler-apologist David Irving.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I don't deny that millions of Jews got murdered but I just don't
>>>>>believe the 6 million figure.
>>>
>>>Even if the figure would have been 4 million or 3 it would have been as
>>>tragically.
>>
>>
>> It would of course have been somewhat higher if Hitler and the Nazis had
>> managed to complete the murder of every Jewish man, woman and child on
>> this planet.
>
>
> You know that he wanted to exterminate other races too and not only the
> religion of Jewish faith.
> Are you pretending to be an idiot or a you an idiot?

He certainly did do his level best to also remove for instance the Gypsies.
But you must be an idiot as you think it was 'only' Jews of the Zionist
faith that the Nazis murdered.

>>>>Of course you don't. Few if any anti-Semitists do.
>>>
>>>So you believe in round figures?
>>>Disregard the fact that the surviving victims usually put the numbers of
>>>their deaths slightly higher and the murderers slightly lower?
>>
>>
>> You are still banging on about the six million being a 'Jewish' figure.
>> Haven't you considered that serious non-Jewish historians (thereby
>> excepting the David Irving, the guy with a court judgement of being a
>> Hitler-apologist) may have looked into these matters too?
>>
>>
>>>Are the deaths of the people you like more valuable then the deaths of
>>>the people you care less?
>>
>>
>> You're wrong, Mhtsos. I don't rate Jews any different from any other
>> human beings on this planet.
>
> We in this group know you do.

You're a liar. Because I don't. I have no reason to. And you still haven't
proved a sausage.

But it's the same old tired arguments that Dorian West and Roman of bygone
days used to 'prove' that I should be Turkish, or whatever they happened to
take displeasure to at any time.

Silly, illogical. And of course not unexpected.

The one and only reason we are having this argument - that is you and me -
is because you are defending Agamemnon's disgusting anti-Semitism, as in
"The Jews are babykilling SCUM worse than Hitler.". I do not hold a candle
to Turks, to Jews, to Brits, the Greeks, to any race, to any ethnic group, I
do not label any ethnic group like Agamemnon does when he says that Jews are
"SCUM".

>>>To me the genocide of the Armenians was as tragical as the genocide of
>>>the Jews but you put the Jews above all other people. This I am arguing
>>>with you and nothing else.
>>
>>
>> In that case we are in absolute and total agreement, as I do not put
>> anybody before anybody else, not because of ethnicity, race, religion, or
>> any other common grouping factor. But don't you and Agamemnon hate Turks,
>> because they are Turkish, because of the crimes committed by Turks in the
>> past? If you answer No to this, then perhaps we may eventually have
>> reached the end of this particular squabble.
>
> It's not a race issue. It's about culture.

Is that why Agamemno (and maybe you too) hates even Turkish children -
because of the sins of their ancestors - now, is that their or is that
Agamemnon's 'culture', I wonder.

> It's the Turkish imperialism, land theft and mass-murder under which the
> Greek people but also Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians and other have been
> suffering and are still suffering.
> Why did the Germans admitted, apologized and paid for their crimes but
> Turkey not?

It would be fine if Turkey admitted at least some of the atrocities she has
committed in the past.

> Why should I be OK with it?

It's up to you. You go through life hating, and I shall continue feel sorry
for you.

Henry.


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