Re: Kylie dons Hijab - Adult Christian Fashion label launched


"Zetla Plane" <zetla.plane@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.09.26.13.52.25.548459@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:54:30 +0000, Mark Addinall nous disait :
>
>>
>> "John of Aix" <j.murphy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:43370a45$0$7831$8fcfb975@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> France may or may not have a considerable Muslim population, for you see
>>> (as I said much earlier) one's religions figures NOWHERE on any French
>>> official document, nowhere.
>>
>> Well... You sure?
>
> Yes.

Seems you don't pay much attention to your own nation.

>
>> The French Constitution of 1958 and its Amendments
>> PREAMBLE
>>
>> The French people solemnly proclaim their attachment to the Rights of Man
>> and the principles of national sovereignty as defined by the Declaration
>> of
>> 1789, confirmed and complemented by the Preamble to the Constitution of
>> 1946.
>
> Did you read the Declaration of 1789?

Yes.

> Well it's more or less the same that the mankind declaration by the UN.
> Did you read the Declaration of 1946?

Preamble to the declaration of the Constitution you mean?
Yes.

> I guess no.

You guessed incorrectly.

> Oterwise can you quote a line where god is mention (in 1789 or 1946)?

God? No that would be presumptious (another French word!).
But they all mention religion, and some mention belief.

>
>> By virtue of these principles and that of the self-determination of
>> peoples,
>> the Republic offers to the overseas territories that express the will to
>> adhere to them new institutions founded on the common ideal of liberty,
>> equality and fraternity and conceived with a view to their democratic
>> development.
>
> Can't see the mention of god here.
>
>> Article 1
>>
>> France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and social Republic.
>> It
>> shall ensure the equality of all citizens before the law, without
>> distinction of origin, race or *religion*. *It shall respect all
>> beliefs*.
>
> Yes France is a laic secular state, religion comes after the constitution.

Religion is in the very first article!

>
>> ON SOVEREIGNTY
>>
>> Article 2
>>
>> The language of the Republic shall be French.
>
> Hum, yes for official language, but townhall can speak their own
> language as long as it translate into french.
>
>> The national emblem shall be the blue, white and red tricolour flag.
>
> And do you know what this colors stand for?

Yes. Do you want me to explain it for you?

>
>> The national anthem shall be La Marseillaise.
>
> Yes but they should wipe out the sentence about "le sang impure", but a
> very good revolutionnary song indeed.

Seems like you would like to re-write a deal of history.

>
>> The motto of the Republic shall be " Liberty, Equality, Fraternity".
>
> Yes but we didn't acheving it yet, that's why there is so many social
> tensions in France.

Try harder.

>
>> Its principle shall be: government of the people, by the people and for
>> the
>> people.
>
> Without any god, but respecting thus who beleive in god as long as they
> don't betray the constitution.

I think the people forcing little girls not to wear headscarves are
violating
(a French word ;) the very basis of your constitution.

Ibid.
---
The French Constitution of 1830
Louis Philippe, King of the French, to all present and to come, greeting.

We have ordered and do order that the Constitutional Charter of 1814, such
as it has been amended by the two Chambers on August 7th and accepted by us
on the 9th, shall be again published in the following terms:

Public Law of the French

1. Frenchmen are equal before the law, whatever may be their titles and
rank.

2. They contribute, without distinction, in proportion to their fortunes
toward the expenses of the state.

3. They are all equally admissible to civil and military employments.

4. Their personal property is likewise guaranteed; no one can be
prosecuted or arrested save in the cases provided by law and in the form
which it prescribes.

5. Everyone may profess his religion with equal freedom and shall obtain
for his worship the same protection.

---


Excerpts from The French Constitution
October 4, 1958

(Amended through Oct. 29, 1974)



Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen Adopted by the National
Assembly during the French Revolution on August 26, 1789 and reaffirmed by
the Constitution of 1958.

Preamble
The Representatives of the French People, formed into a National Assembly,
considering ignorance, forgetfulness or contempt of the rights of man to be
the only causes of public misfortunes and the corruption of Governments,
have resolved to set forth, in a solemn Declaration, the natural,
inalienable and sacred rights of man, to the end that this Declaration,
constantly present to all members of the body politic, may remind them
unceasingly of their rights and their duties; to the end that the acts of
the legislative power and those of the executive power, since they may be
continually compared with the aim of every political institution, may
thereby be the more respected; to the end that the demands of the citizens,
founded henceforth on simple and incontestable principles, may always be
directed toward the maintenance of the Constitution and the happiness of
all.

In consequence whereof, the National Assembly recognizes and declares, in
the presence and under the auspices of the Supreme Being, the following
Rights of Man and of the Citizen.

Article 1
All men are born and remain free, and have equal rights. Social distinctions
are unjustifiable except insofar as they may serve the common good.

Article 2
The purpose of political association is to preserve the natural and
inalienable rights of man, i.e., liberty, private property, the
inviolability of the person, and the right to resist oppression.

Article 3
Sovereignty resides essentially in the nation as a whole; no group or
individual can exercise any authority not expressly delegated to it or him.

Article 4
Liberty is the right to do anything which does not harm others. Thus, each
man's natural rights are limited only by the necessity to assure equal
liberty to others. Only the law can determine what restrictions must be
made.

Article 5
The law can proscribe only those actions which harm society. Any action not
forbidden by law cannot be disallowed, nor can anyone be forced to do what
the law does not specifically command.

Article 6
Law is the overt expression of the general will. All citizens have the right
to participate in legislation, either in person or through their
representatives. The law must be framed to operate completely impartially.
Since all are equal before the law, all are equally eligible, in accordance
with their abilities, for all public offices and positions.

Article 7
No man can be indicted, arrested, or held in custody except for offenses
legally defined, and according to specified procedures. Those who solicit,
transmit, execute or cause to be executed arbitrary commands must be
punished; but if a citizen is summoned or arrested in due legal form it is
his duty to obey instantly.

Article 8
The law must impose only penalties that are obviously necessary. No one can
be punished except under the correct application of an established law which
must, moreover, have existed before he committed the offense.

Article 9
Everyone must be presumed innocent until he is pronounced guilty. If his
arrest and detention are thought necessary, then no more force may be used
than is necessary to secure his person.

Article 10
No one must suffer for his opinions, even for religious opinions, provided
that his advocacy of them does not endanger public order.

Article 11
---


Preambule to the 27th of october 1946 Constitution
In the morrow of the victory achieved by the free peoples over the regimes
that had sought to enslave and degrade humanity, the people of France
proclaim anew that each human being, without distinction of race, religion
or creed, possesses sacred and inalienable rights. They solemnly reaffirm
the rights and freedoms of man and the citizen enshrined in the Declaration
of Rights of 1789 and the fundamental principles acknowledged in the laws of
the Republic.

They further proclaim, as being especially necessary to our times, the
political, economic and social principles enumerated below:

a.. The law guarantees women equal rights to those of men in all spheres.
b.. Any man persecuted in virtue of his actions in favour of liberty may
claim the right of asylum upon the territories of the Republic.
c.. Each person has the duty to work and the right to employment. No
person may suffer prejudice in his work or employment by virtue of his
origins, opinions or beliefs.
---



>
>> ----
>> Gee, atricle 1 of the constituation. And is THERFORE reflected in ALL
>> official documents. Dontcha think?
>
> Do you speak of 1789? It's merely the same as the Human Right Act in the
> Un.
> Are you against Human Right?

No, I'm all for it! You go away and read those fine words.
Similar thing are noted in MY constitution (Australia), although
in a bit of a lack-lustre (more French!) way. As you, we seem to be
forgetting the principals of the foundation of a great nation.
Sad really.

Mark Addinall.

>
> --
> <Glop> t'as choppe sur msn ?
> <Glop> putain g choppe a plein d'endroits
> <Glop> mais pas msn, j'ai une moralite quand meme
>


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