Re: José Rizal (Re: 15% of Filipinos functionally illiterate)


"tumbaga" <tanso@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:11irqcu9ngcq31f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sorry. When you jail those who speak out against you, you are a despot.
>>
>> Maybe you didn't understand the ramifications of his response to
>> Robertson.
>> He wants Robertson extradited to Argentina to face trial - he claims that
>> anyone who calls for the death of a nation's leader should be imprisoned.
>> That's not the way it works here. I like our way better.
>
> Don't you get to be in jail when threatening the president?

No. 18 U.S.C.A. § 871, as interpreted by U.S. v. Ogren (2001) 54 M.J. 481,
extends the rationale generally applied to "incitement" to threats against
the president - that they be "true threats", and that they be wilful. To be
a "true threat", the statement must contain an "avowed determination to
injure another... provided that the language communicated and
all the surrounding circumstances would lead a reasonable person in the
recipient's place to perceive a threat." (Id. at p. 486.)

In Watt v. U.S. (1969) 394 U.S. 705 the U.S. Supremes tempered any
prosecution of alleged threats against the president by the "profound
national commitment to the principle that debate on public issues should be
uninhibited, robust, and wideopen, and that it may well include vehement,
caustic, and sometimes unpleasantly sharp attacks on government and public
officials." This specifically does not include "political hyperbole."
(Watts v. U.S. (1969) 394 U.S. 705, 708.) The Court concludes: "We agree
with petitioner that his only offense here was 'a kind of very crude
offensive method of stating a political opposition to the President.' Taken
in context, and regarding the expressly conditional nature of the statement
and the reaction of the listeners, we do not see how it could be interpreted
otherwise." (Ibid.)

Look at Robertson's comment: ""You know, I don't know about this doctrine
of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think
that we really ought to go ahead and do it." This not even a threat; it is
an opinion of what should happen. Only a fool would think a) that Robertson
was really agitating for the assassination and b) that his words in any way
could effect that desire. If I say, I think people who litter the highways
should be taken out and shot," does that constitute a threat? Of course
not. For one, I lack the power to bring this about, and it strains
credulity that I would incite someone with the means to actually do it.

Statements of opinion are generally not punishable, even against
politicians. When Rep. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana threatened the president
with a slapping if he said certain things, there was a much higher
probability of her being in a position to effect that threat. It was
conditional (which also takes it beyond § 871 as defined in Watt v. U.S.,
the seminal 1969 case on threats to the president), as is Robinsons ("if he
thinks").

So, no, we don't prosecute people for making these kinds of statements
against the president.

>
> Chavez's biggest detractors are the land owners. The common person on the
> street supports him. Doesn't mean he is perfect, he is a socialist and not
> making any excuses.
>
> I do like two of your links.

The common people on the street are the poor who are doing worse under
Chavez. Dictators have long gotten by on promises to the ignorant poor
offering them bread and circuses while doing nothing to alleviate their
condition. Unemployment is up, poverty is up - and Chavez wants to attack
those very institutions (business and property rights) which lead to escape
from poverty and the development of a middle class. A clue that a leader is
unable to create positive change is when they mount a campaign to say that
all the nation's woes are caused by some external enemy. This means that
they don't have to try to succeed in changing things, because the external
boogie man will never let them succeed.

Again, consider how land reform worked in the Philippines. Many poor people
who were "land rich" got their farms and land taken without compensation

I tend to be pragmatic - show me where there is sustainable growth and the
basis for elevating more people out of poverty - not just promises - and I
will note the positives.

Chavez seems to be poising himself for a takeover of neighboring states. He
is a very dangerous man.

"The people are like children..." Pig




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