Re: Cuba's Healthcare an inspiration

By his cowardly snip-and-run tactics, PL all but concedes here that
his beloved embargo is indeed a form of genocide. As usual, he has no
effective counter-argument, so he just snips and runs. His lies about
the Cuban health care and prison systems are exposed here as well… YET
AGAIN!

On Mar 16, 4:33 am, PL <pl.nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or just too
lame to bother with]

I have shown that Cuba has amongst the highest ration of prisoners per
1000 if one uses UN and Human rights data on prisoners.
What UN data???(snip)
http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/50/plenary/a50-663.htm
"Non-government sources???" Get real!(snip)
Nope.
fact.

Not according to the ICPS.

The source you gave indicated itself the data was questionable and
based on one person's 4 year old estimate only.


Bullshit. The ICPS rejected your "di$$ident" data.

>http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/worldbrief/wpb_country......
Thanks for confirming you lied. (snip)
actually I did the opposite by providing the link the the UN websotehttp://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/50/plenary/a50-663.htm

[snip]

You said you had "UN data." (snip)

What the cowardly PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:


You said you had "UN data." That was a lie. It turns out, it was just
an "estimate" (a fabrication?) -- "between 100,000 and 200,000
prisoners" -- from some mysterious "non-governmental sources" in
Cuba! In no way were UN personnel involved in compiling this "data."
The ICPS itself repudiated these numbers, dropping them from their
website and adopting the much lower numbers that establishes the US
as
the world's number-one prison nation.

Again, since you snipped it for obvious reasons, other sources
include:

"Incarceration in the United States," Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

"Prison Nation," HRW, April 2009
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/04/09/prison-nation

and that was indeed a Un report.

Contrary to your lies, it was NOT UN data.

Data reported by the UN.

But not compiled by them. In all likelihood, these numbers were pure
fabrication by US agents. But thanks for confirming that the
ultimately ICPS repudiated them.


Deal with it, Dan.http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/50/plenary/a50-663.htm
How desperate will you get.

"According to United Nations statistics, there are approximately 294
prisons and correctional labor camps in Cuba that hold anywhere between
100,000 and 200,000 prisoners at one time. The prisoners are not only
common thieves, murderers, and violent criminals, sometimes including
juveniles, but also political dissidents."


Your own posting shows these are not "UN statistics." The actual
source was some mysterious "non-governmental sources." Get real!


Where the source itself says that the data is not based on published
data, just an "estimate" 4 years old of one man who has grudgingly been
increasing that estimate.
An expert in the field. (snip)
and such an "expert" that the website clearly marks the data as an
"estimate" showing it isn't of the same quality as the other data.

[snip]

And a number "between 100,000 and 200,000" from your di$$ident sources
is NOT an "estimate????"(snip)

you mean the result of an in-depth and detailed study:


You mean the result was pure fabrication! One ultimately rejected by
the ICPS.


"Human rights activist Elizardo Sanchez says Cuba's jails hold about
100,000 prisoners today, up from 4,000 in 1956.

A figure ultimately rejected by the ICPS. Deal with it, Mr. Lobbyist.



Sanchez, who heads the independent Cuban Commission for Human Rights and
National Reconciliation, has presented what he says is Cuba's first
detailed study of the evolution of the prison system under communism."

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-117853888.html

A study made by local people based on direct information, not from abroad.

You mean local US agents. Get real!


"The Miami Herald
Sep. 22, 2003
Cuba's many prisons may hold 100,000"http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/prisons.htm

"80,000 to 100,000 inmates"http://www.cubalog.eu/index.php?id=18&article=33


Figures ultimately rejected by the ICPS.


"According to United Nations statistics,

NOT UN stats.


there are approximately 294
prisons and correctional labor camps in Cuba that hold anywhere between
100,000 and 200,000 prisoners at one time.
The prisoners are not only
common thieves, murderers, and violent criminals, sometimes including
juveniles, but also political dissidents."

http://www.wcl.american.edu/hrbrief/v7i3/prison.htm


You are repeating yourself! That quota thing again, Mr. Lobbyist?


I go with the lowest estimate (to be on the safe side) of 100,000.
That would mean 531/60*100= 885 prisoners per 100,000, more than the US..
Sadly for you, no one these days believes that bullshit.
actually, the article above confirms it

It "confirms" nothing.

Yes it does.
It gives the full array of figures and the consensus one.


Bullshit.


Note the 545 figure as number of prisons (again the lowest estimate ) to
be found on internet (see:http://www.cubaverdad.net/list_prisons_in_cuba.htm)
But this is just your lying website,(snip)
Unlike you I have no "lying" website.

Isn't this your website? Unlike my website, it is full of lies. Given
your record here, we will need more than just your word on ANYTHING.

Even Amnesty uses elements of it.

Bullshit.

Fact.
Amnesty has published pictures from Cubaverdad with acknowledgments. http://www.amnesty.org.au/news/comments/9209/


That is just a photo credit, idiot! It could be from anywhere in the
world. Even Belgium.


From the website you quoted.

(Different sources quote different totals. Two separate lists of
prisons, presented province by province, contain 545 and 582 prisons.)
Recent prison population trend (year, prison population total, prison
population rate)
2003 c.55,000 (c.487)

Thanks for confirming that ICPS numbers are MUCH lower (snip)

The ICPS reports a series of numbers, Dan.


All MUCH LOWER that your "di$$ident" data.


That is why you snipped the rest:

Note the little "c" in front of the number
where one sees the following if one clicks on Cuba
Country CUBA

Prison population total (including pre-trial detainees / remand
prisoners) c.60,000
at November 2006

Much lower.

(estimate by Professor Nils Christie, University of
Oslo. Higher estimates have been suggested by other sources.)

Prison population rate (per 100,000 of national population)
c.531
based on an estimated national population of 11.3 million at November
2006 (from United Nations figures)
Number of establishments / institutions
*
(Different sources quote different totals. Two separate lists of
prisons, presented province by province, contain 545 and 582 prisons.)
Recent prison population trend (year, prison population total, prison
population rate)
2003 c.55,000 (c.487)

Much lower.


ICPS :School of Law :King's College London : World Prison Brief : King's
College London (12 March 2010)

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/worldbrief/wpb_country....

Where the source itself says that the data is not based on published
data, just an "estimate" 4 years old of one man who has grudgingly been
increasing that estimate.


It went from 55,000 in 2003 to 60,000 in 2006 -- estimates the ICPS
obviously believe are more reliable than the "di$$ident" data they
previously reported and subsequently repudiated. Deal with it.


So I will stay with the UN data that is alos reported by Cuban human
rights groups.


Again, it was not "UN data." The source was some mysterious "non-
governmental sources" in Cuba -- sources ultimately repudiated by the
ICPS.


I go with the lowest estimate (to be on the safe side) of 100,000.
That would mean 531/60*100= 885 prisoners per 100,000, more than the US..


The ICPS rejects this ranking. It ranks the US as the world's number-
one prison nation. So does the US-based Human Rights Watch. See:

"Prison Nation," HRW, April 2009
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/04/09/prison-nation

Note the 545 figure as number of prisons (again the lowest estimate ) to
be found on internet (see:http://www.cubaverdad.net/list_prisons_in_cuba.htm)

[snip]

Again, this is just your lying website. Quit citing it like it is
anything but a two-bit anti-Cuban propaganda site.

In any case, the number of prisons is irrelevant. The fact remains
that your political masters run the world's number-one prison nation.
And they dare to criticize to Cuba??? Get real!

"Even today, Cuba has one of the lowest infant mortality
rates in the
world." Katie Couric reporting on NBC's Today, February 13, 1992
As the CIA itself confirms at their website(snip)
A lie. The CIA "confirms" nothing.
The fact that these mortal enemies of the Cuban people are posting
these stats (snip)
Just shows they use UN stats as they do everywhere without question.
I can see that it really pisses you off! (snip)
Yep.
Lies piss me off.

They are your stock-in-trade!

Nope.
yours.

Some examples:

I can quote you for anything I have said about you like:

When I said you misrepresented Wayne Smith's words:

[snip]

Repeatedly debunked here. See PL's Lie #21 at "PL's same tired old
lies and evasions EXPOSED"
http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/36c96cf26743ccca?hl=en

or

When I siad: I have in general exposed
the lies on it [your lying website] (on Amnesty International for example)

What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions

[snip]

Also repeatedly debunked here. See PL's Lie #22 at the above link.

But do post the report of the latest UN review of the data.
Post the latest UN review of US or even Belgian data. (snip)
anyone has free access to the data.
Prove it. Show us even one independent review of US or Belgian data. (snip)
come to Belgium.

Will I get to see your medical records? (snip)

Data is made available on an anonymous basis for research, but the data
collection methods and raw data for all vital statistics can be reviewed
at the national statistical board.

Cuba also publishes such statistics. But thanks for confirming that
you cannot show us even one independent review of US or Belgian data.


Cuba provides no review and in lots of cases (prison population), no data..
In other cases the Cuban press has exposed the lies themselves
(unemployment) and even Raul admitted the figures are massaged.

Cuban doctors and international experts have confirmed data is
manipulated for political purposes.


You have tried to make this outrageous claim hundreds of times here.
And each time you went down in flames -- as here.

Experts in Cuba like Dr. Thiede declared the data they got was useless

[snip]

On the contrary, he said "the stats office was quite rigorous." (See
below.)

he said: not trustworthy
His words:
"during my stay I was only able to get hold of the official statistical
data and find them not especially trustworthy.""

[snip]

Dr. Thiede, an economist, wrote to me personally, saying that this
referred to financial data, not medical stats (see below). He said, he
found the medical stats (mortality rates, etc.) to be "quite
rigorous." Yet another of your lies exposed.

Medical:
fromwww.promedmail.orgarchivenumber19970627.1390
"People emigrating from Cuba or visiting Cuba, including
international
health representatives, have reported that it is in line with Cuban
Government policy to report mild cases of dengue as "influenza".
Cuban
physicians have confirmed allegations that some disease reporting in
Cuba is politically influenced"
More creative editing, Mr. Lobbyist??? (snip)
nope.
quote with link.

You desperately hoped readers wouldn't go to the link to see for
themselves. (snip)

Nope;
I post the link because I fully inform people, unlike you.

[snip]

You snipped the next sentence that would have given the proper
context. As usual, you were trying to deceive readers here. When will
you learn?

The very next sentence actually undermines these outrageous claims:
"However, lack of reporting may simply be an understaffing issue."
(snip)

What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:

So, the author is clearly NOT buying into these claims. (snip)


What the cowardly PL snipped for all too obvious reasons AGAIN!:
So, the author is clearly NOT buying into these claims. It is well
known that mild cases of dengue are outwardly indistinguishable from
ordinary flu. The cure is same, too -- bed rest, fluids, etc. Only
sophisticated (costly?) lab tests can tell them apart. Once again, we
see what a truly desperate liar you are!

addressed.

Snipping and running is NOT addressing the issue, you coward!


El Gobierno cubano denuncia el descontrol del sistema sanitario de la
isla que dificulta su buen funcionamiento. europapress.es (26 February 2010)http://www.europapress.es/latam/cuba/noticia-cuba-gobierno-cubano-den....

Nothing here to support your outrageous claims.

Just saying the system is far from understaffed you mean.

It says there shortages in some areas, and surpluses in others. Yet
another of your lies exposed!



"WHO and the PanAmerican Health Organization (WHO's Regional Office
for
the Western Hemisphere) cannot report to the world without clearance
from the Cuban government."
Nothing here to support your outrageous claims (snip)
Just saying: Cuba controls the data and even Raul says they lie.

Only in your genocdial wet dreams, Mr. Lobbyist. (snip)

Nope.
In fact: the international organizations depend on national reporting.
The quality of the national reporting as far as Cuba goes in widely
questioned in all fields.

Not in health care. Again, not even your CIA colleagues are buying
into your bullshit. Even these mortal enemies of the Cuban people post
Cuban health stats without any qualifications whatsoever -- stats that
show that the Cuban infant mortality rate is considerably LOWER than
that of the USA. Must be frustrating as hell for you.



Michael Thiede is Senior Research Officer in the Health Economics Unit
of the Department of Public Health and Primary Health Care at the
University of Cape Town, South Africa. He writes: " Last year I spent
three months in Cuba. I am still motivated to put together some papers
on Cuban health care. Unfortunately, however, during my stay I was
only able to get hold of the official statistical data and find them
not especially trustworthy.
Poor, desperate lobbyist…
Write to Dr. Thiede yourself(snip)

What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:

(snuip)

What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons AGAIN!:

Write to Dr. Thiede yourself -- if you dare, "Miss" Lobbyist. A health
economist according to his online CV, he will confirm that he was
referring here to financial data. I myself wrote to him confirm the
above quote. He replied:

"Happy to exchange some views with you around Cuban health care stats.
It's less data around morbidity and mortality where I see weaknesses
(actually the stats office seems to be quite rigorous), but the
expenditure data I find very obscure, especially in the course of
time."

While he had some difficulty with the financial (expenditure) data, he
actually praises Cuba health stats (mortality rates, etc.) as "quite
rigorous." Yet another of your lies exposed!

as they are just your lies.

Still in denial, I see. All you have to do write to him as I did. Yes,
I know, you would rather die! Once bitten, twice shy, eh, "Miss"
Lobbyist? What a loser!

I have his public statements and don't need your privatelies.

You have no "public statement" from him. (snip)


What the cowardly PL snipped for obvious reasons:

You have no "public statement" from him. Just a quote taken out of
context by one of your fellow travelers. I, on the other hand, have a
personal e-mail from him that exposes your lies and gives the proper
context for the quote.

his words reflected on a scholarly (not political) newsboard.

Bullshit. But thanks for confirming that this was not posted by Dr.
Thiede himself.


http://www.stanford.edu/group/wais/cuba_healthcarestatistics62202.html
(link now broken)
Broken, indeed. This was not a posting by Dr. Thiede himself, but
someone like you, (snip)
You mean an academic on a university website, no?

I mean a liar (snip)

The data came from an academic on a university website.

I am sorry to say that academics lie as much anyone else. If he was
more interested in the truth, and less interested in propagandizing,
he could have written to Dr. Thiede to confirm the quote, as I did,
and avoided embarrassing himself in this way.


"Controlling AIDS in Cuba"
New England Journal of Medicine (09/21/89) Vol. 321, No. 12, P.
Gordon, Antonio M.
[…]

[snip more of the same out-dated articles on AIDS]
(snip)

What PL snipped for obvious reasons:

Sadly for you, Cuba's HIV infection is now widely known to be about
1/10th that of the USA,(snip)


What PL snipped for obvious reasons AGAIN!:

Sadly for you, Cuba's HIV infection is now widely known to be about
1/10th that of the USA, and one of the lowest rate in the world. See,
for example:

"Cuba leads the way in HIV fight," BBC News Online, February 17, 2003
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2003/denver_2003/2770631.stm

it is on the rise.

Prove it. In any case, they have a LONG way to go to catch up to the
USA!


Not "out-)dated" at all.

[snip]

Check the date: 1989. (snip)

and the fact Cuba lied has never been refuted.

[snip]

See the link you that snipped for obvious reasons (above).

TENS OF THOUSANDS have died from heat waves in Europe (snip)
Not in a hospital, Dan.
They should have been hospitalized, (snip)
and those that were survived.
Prove it. The fact is, tens of thousands of people died because of neglect and denial by the authorities. (snip)
post any proof of people dying of negligence in hospitals, Dan.

You made the claim, you prove it. The fact is, the entire social system in Europe -- not just hospitals -- failed these people who died in their tens of thousands. (snip)

Shown that in Cuba people died in the care of hospitals.

A minor incident compared to the catastrophe in Europe where the
entire social system failed.

As far as Europe: no data as you confirmed.

[snip]

At least 35,000 dead because of official neglect and denial in Europe.
Deal with it, Mr. Lobbyist.

By the way: comparing a prolonged heath wave with a couple of days of
cold whether is of course hypocrite.

Bullshit. Cold weather will kill you faster than hot.


that is where they took people to be safe from death.
In Cuba they actually dies in hospital.
A "detail" you would like people to forget.
See the pictures:http://www.penultimosdias.com/2010/03/02/los-muertos-de-mazorra/
How about some pictures of the tens of thousands of corpses piled up
Europe in August 2003?
Post any one you can find from people that dies in the care of
hospitals, Dan.
[snip]
They died in the streets and in their homes. What difference does it
make? (snip)
It says they should have gotten to a hospital where they would be safe..

STILL waiting for your proof,(snip)

What PL snipped for obvious reasons:

STILL waiting for your proof, Mr. Lobbyist. You have not even shown
that there was even adequate capacity to handle all these cases --
the
tens of thousands that died, and, no doubt, many more who suffered
needlessly. What measures have they adopted since then? Or are they
still in denial?


I have posted the proof on Cuba.

Very evasive, Mr. Lobbyist. Please address the issue here. Quit
snipping and running all the time!

But the story did not go away. Just last week, pictures of some of the
dead were snuck out of Cuba. They proved that hypothermia alone was not
the cause of death, any more than it was the cause of the death for the
prisoners at Dachau or Buchenwald. Horrific malnutrition and savage
beatings were plain to see for anyone genuinely interested in the causes.
[snip]
Again, could we have a somewhat more credible source?
The pictures are there.
They prove none of these outrageous claims.
Says you.
Says the pictures themselves. No proof of "horrific malnutrition and
savage beatings." Just more propaganda.
So these look to you like well fed people?http://www.penultimosdias.com/2010/03/02/los-muertos-de-mazorra/

They don't look well. They couldn't take care of themselves. That's
part of the reason they were hospitalized.

and there they weren't properly cared for as the reports and pictures show.

[snip]

Bullshit. They show nothing of the sort.


This in a country that prior
to the glorious revolution enjoyed a lower infant-mortality rate and
more doctors and dentists per-capita than half of European countries,
plus a larger middle class than Switzerland.
Ever nostalgic for the "good old days" under your hero, the US-backed
dictator, Batista! They knew how to handle "troublemakers!"
A lie and insult.
Nope.
I supported the anti-Batista revolution.
I really doubt that.(snip)
What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:
I really doubt that.(snip)
replied to and I challenge you again to show you have any quote of mine
supporting Batista.

[snip]

We have you tacitly supporting murder and torture, and actively
promoting genocide against Cuban children (snip)


What PL snipped for obvious reasons:

We have you tacitly supporting murder and torture, and actively
promoting genocide against Cuban children -- whatever it takes to
advance the interests of your political masters. Loyal foot soldier
that you are, you can't expect us now to believe you would have taken
exception to their support of your hero, Batista. Get real!

No.
I have not.
Note that you are hedging your lies here by claiming all I did was
"tacitly" by which you admit you can't quote me.

No "lies," Mr. Lobbyist. Hundreds of times now, you have refused to
even comment on -- never mind condemn! -- the murder and torture of
opponents of the Bush regime in its vast network of secret prisons
around the world. (Watch now as PL snips and runs YET AGAIN!) In the
court of public opinion anyway, this shows your support for what they
did. Again, it is easy to imagine the reign of terror you would
inflict on the Cuban people if you ever had the chance again!


Cuba's IMR is
now LOWER than even that of their tormentors to the North -- the good
ol' US of A! Not bad considering nearly half a century of genocidal US
trade sanctions.
Another lie.
There are no "genocidal" sanctions as you yourself have confirmed by
failing to post even ONE quote from any reputable organization referring
to the trade sanctions as "genocide".
The facts as documented in reports recently released by Amnesty
International (my emphasis):
(snip)
What PL also snipped for all too obvious reasons:
The facts as documented in reports recently released by Amnesty
International (my emphasis):
(snip)

What PL also snipped for all too obvious reasons AGAIN!:

(snip)

What PL also snipped for all too obvious reasons YET AGAIN!!!:

The facts as documented in reports recently released by Amnesty
International (my emphasis):

March 2009

"Amnesty International urges the US government to lift the nearly
five- decade long economic and trade embargo against Cuba as it is
detrimental to the fulfillment of the economic and social rights of
the Cuban people. It OBSTRUCTS AND CONSTRAINS efforts by the Cuban
government to purchase essential medicines, medical equipment and
supplies, food and agricultural products, construction materials and
access to new technologies.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR25/002/2009/en/e7b1efe4-27...

September 2009

"The US embargo against Cuba is IMMORAL and should be lifted. It’s
preventing millions of Cubans from benefiting from vital medicines and
medical equipment essential for their health."

"Because of the US embargo, Cuba faces SEVERE RESTRICTIONS in
importing medicines, medical equipment or technologies from the USA or
from any US company abroad. The sanctions also limit other imports to
the island and restrict travel and the transfer of money."
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/president-obama-sho...

"Amnesty International calls on the US Congress to take, WITHOUT
FURTHER DELAY, the necessary steps towards lifting the economic,
financial and trade embargo against Cuba...

"The UN General Assembly has repeatedly CONDEMNED the US embargo as
contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and international law.
On 29 October 2008 the UN General Assembly passed a resolution
reiterating for the 17th time its call on the USA to end its embargo
against Cuba. That resolution was adopted with 185 votes in favour,
three against and two abstentions. The Inter-American Commission on
Human Rights has also reiterated its position regarding “the impact of
such sanctions on the human rights of the Cuban people and,
therefore, INSISTS THAT THE EMBARGO BE LIFTED.”

"[E]xports of food and agricultural products to Cuba remain regulated
by the Department of Commerce and require a licence for export or re-
export. The export of medicines and medical supplies continues to be
SEVERELY LIMITED....

“The RESTRICTIONS IMPOSED BY THE EMBARGO help to deprive Cuba of vital
access to medicines, new scientific and medical technology, food,
chemical water treatment and electricity.”

"The provision of health care has suffered from the LIMITATIONS AND
RESTRICTIONS IMPOSED BY THE EMBARGO on the procurement of basic and
specialized medical equipment and chemical components needed for the
production of generic medicines....

"Cuba was UNABLE TO IMPORT nutritional products destined for children
and for consumption at schools, hospitals and day care centres. This
had an adverse effect on the health and nutritional status of the
population.

"Children’s health was also put at risk by a decision from syringe
suppliers to CANCEL an order for 3 million disposable syringes by
UNICEF’s Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization when it became
known that the units were destined for the implementation of the
programme in Cuba.

"The number of children suffering from heart conditions who are
waiting for appropriate treatment at a pediatric hospital has
increased after Cuba was unable to buy from the US-based companies the
necessary medical equipment for their treatment. The companies
allegedly refused to negotiate with Cuba because of the RESTRICTIONS
SET BY THE US EMBARGO.

"LACK OF ACCESS to products manufactured by United States companies
such as St. Jude Medical, Boston Scientific and Amplatzer prevents the
provision of proper care to seriously ill patients who need a
pacemaker, St. Jude prosthetic valves or septal occluders, forcing
their treatment with alternative, riskier surgical techniques.

"It has been IMPOSSIBLE TO PURCHASE a positron emission tomography/
computerized tomography (PET/CT) scanner, a state-of-the-art piece of
medical equipment needed for treatment that is made by only three
manufacturers worldwide, all unauthorized to negotiate with Cuba."
The
impact of economic sanctions on health and health services is not
limited to difficulties in the supply of medicine. Health and health
services depend on functioning water and sanitation infrastructure,
on
electricity and other functioning equipment such as X-ray facilities
or refrigerators to store vaccines. The financial burden and
commercial barriers have led to shortages or intermittent
availability
of drugs, medicines, equipment and spare parts. It has also hindered
the renovation of hospitals, clinics and care centres for the
elderly.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/AMR25/007/2009/en/51469f8b-73...
(PDF format)
And while I have asked you MANY times, it seems even you cannot deny
that such sanctions would lead the deaths and needless suffering of
children and other vulnerable groups. Deny it??? Hell, you are
COUNTING ON IT!!!

Note that Article 2c of the UN Genocide Convention states that the
crime of genocide includes, among other things, "deliberately
inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about
its physical destruction in whole or in part."
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/genocide.htm

Again, as Amnesty International has reported, “The restrictions
imposed by the embargo help to deprive Cuba of vital access to
medicines, new scientific and medical technology, food, chemical water
treatment and electricity.” These cruel and inhumane sanctions can,
therefore, even be seen as a form of genocide under international law!
Whatever it takes, right, Mr. Lobbyist?


exposed as a diversion.

No "diversion," Mr. Lobbyist. Just the truth.

Dan claims Amnesty says the trade sanctions are genocide and nowhere -
even in the selected and post-edited snippets - Amnesty nor any other
reputable organization does so.

Still in denial, I see.


(snip)

What the cowardly PL also snipped for obvious reasons YET AGAIN!!!:

I will ask you once again. Amnesty International recently reported
(links above) that your beloved embargo " OBSTRUCTS AND CONSTRAINS
efforts by the Cuban government to purchase essential medicines,
medical equipment and supplies, food and agricultural products,
construction materials and access to new technologies." And that it is
also "preventing millions of Cubans from benefiting from vital
medicines and medical equipment essential for their health." Do you
deny that such sanctions would the lead to the deaths and needless
suffering of children and other vulnerable groups? (Watch now as PL
snips and runs away in terror from this question, as he has done
literally hundreds of times now!)

[As predicted, the cowardly PL shits his pansts, snips and runs away
in terror, AGAIN!!!]


Amnesty claims no intent to kill and you have stated that Cuba has
plenty of other sources.
(snip)


What the cowardly PL also snipped for obvious reasons:

As predicted, the cowardly PL shit his pants, snipped and ran away in
terror! Even he cannot deny that such sanctions would the lead to the
deaths and needless suffering of children and other vulnerable
groups.
Whatever it takes!

You won't get off the hook that easily, Mr. Lobbyist. As their report
shows, AI is fully aware that alternative sources were found for many
products that your political masters tried to block. Nevertheless,
they reported that the US regime still managed to " prevent millions
of Cubans from benefiting from vital medicines and medical equipment
essential for their health." (See link above.) Makes you proud, don't
it, Mr. Lobbyist? All your hard work finally paying off!

Nope.
As predicted you lie.

As predicted, you shit your pants, snipped and ran away in terror…
AGAIN!!!

Post any quote where Amnesty or any other reputable organization would
have referred to the sanctions as "genocide" or even would have stated
any intent to kill anyone.

Still in denial, I see. AI and the UN have documented the facts in
this case. And as we see here, under international law, such actions
are indeed a form of genocide. Deal with it, Mr. Lobbyist.


In the case of the US trade sanctions this is clearly not the case..
The USA is Cuba's 5th trading partner (2) and largest food supplier
(3).
[snipping the same tired old, Nazi-style rationalizations]
(snip)
What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons and refuses to address:
Please explain how killing one person
(snip)

What the cowardly PL snipped for all too obvious reasons and refuses
to address:

replied to.

Please explain how killing one person (snip)

The Us is not killing anyone in Cuba.

As we see above, even a hate-addled propagandist like you cannot deny
that such sanctions would result the deaths of children and other
vulnerable groups. Whatever it takes, right, Mr. Lobbyist"


The Us provides lots of food and medicines.

That does not let you of the hook for "obstructing and constraining efforts by the Cuban government to purchase essential medicines, medical equipment and supplies, food and agricultural products, construction materials and access to new technologies," as AI put it. (snip)

Nothing to do with me.

Under the terms of the UN Genocide Convention, those complicit in
genocide are also punishable.

The US government makes that call and has even relaxed restrictions even
further recently


Nothing they have done so far have addressed their crimes against
humanity as documented by Amnesty International and the UN (see
above).


Cuba can't pay for some and declines to buy them (as shown by the data).

[snipping more of PL's Nazi-style rationalizations]

again the inults.


Again, the truth.

What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:

The fact remains that your political masters continue to actively
"prevent millions of Cubans from benefiting from vital medicines and
medical equipment essential for their health."(See link above.)

Stop calling other people "nazi", Dan.
You share their attitude, not we.

[snip]

Already debunked here. As we have seen here, you support murder,
torture and genocide -- whatever it takes to advance the interest of
your political masters.

The sum-total of GW's work on Cuba is a unattributed, one-liner in a
silly little table at their website.
(snip)
just the result of their research you mean.
[snip]
Then where is the report of their findings?
(snip)

thanks for showing you cant refute any of it.

GW refuted it themselves,

(snip)

Nope.
They did not.

Then why did they remove that outrageous claim of 75,000 deaths? It
must have been embarrassing that groups like Amnesty International and
the UN just weren't buying into their bullshit. Face it, the only
genocide here is in fact your beloved embargo. Whatever it takes,
right, Mr. Lobbyist?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at http://tiny.cc/CubaFAQ
(Note new address. Please update your bookmarks and links.)

PS: As an antidote to PL's venomous personal attacks on me, and to
his
lies and evasions on everything from his lobbying exploits to the
international condemnation of his beloved embargo, see: "PL's same
tired old lies and evasions EXPOSED" at
http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/36c96cf26743ccca?hl=en
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Cubas Healthcare an inspiration
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    (soc.culture.cuba)
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