Re: Pro democracy activist sacked

Dan Christensen wrote:
The same crap twice as usual.

Dan Christensen wrote:
> On Dec 23, 3:19 pm, PL <pl.nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> [snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or just too
> lame to bother with]
>>>>>> > The ANC was supported politically and financially by South African
>>>>>> > workers.
>>>>>> and by foreign backers.
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>> Without the political and financial support of South African workers,
>>>> (snip)
>>> What the cowardly PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:
>>> Without the political and financial support of South African workers,
>> (snip)
>>
>> The ANC was illegal and lived of international donations.
>>
>
> I guess that was the line of your fellow travellers in the old
> apartheid regime(snip)

Get your facts right, Dan, I opposed apartheid.
That doesn't mean I am blind to reality.
You are the one that needs to distribute lies.

>
> The ANC, however, was a political party
(snip)
banned political party.

> allied with the South African
> Communist Party (SACP) and Congress of South African Trade Unions
> (COSATU).
>
> All of these organizations enjoyed the political and financial support
(snip)
of lots of foreign organizations (on human rights basis) and countries (on political basis).
Deal with reality, Dan.
You can't lie your way out of this.
But feel free to post your proof that international aid wasn't the major source by posting data.
In any case you have confirmed that international aid went in, like in Cuba.

>>>> You mean without support from abroad.
>> something Dan doesn't deny.
>>
>>>> But thanks or confirming that pro-democracy movements all over receive
>>>> help from abroad.
>>> Sadly for you, since your dissident pals in Cuba have no local support
>>> to speak of(snip)
>
> What PL snipped for all to obvious reasons:
(snip)

Replied to
How desperate are you getting

>> recent polls show that most Cubans don't agree with the regime.
>
> Polls by the Republican Institute (snip)

Polls that are used and accepted by even some of your favorite sources as we have seen.

>> Raul castro again threatened the Cuban people in case it protested in
>> the streets.
>>
> [snip]
>
> You mean the people themselves (snip)

Nope.
Raul Castro as shown in the links that you snipped for "obvious reasons"

Castro advierte que no tolerará protestas en las calles de Cuba ·
ELPAÍS.com (22 December 2009)
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Castro/advierte/tolerara/protestas/calles/Cuba/elpepiint/20091222elpepiint_4/Tes

Disidentes: El discurso de Raúl Castro es una amenaza 'clara' |
DIARIODECUBA (22 December 2009)
http://www.ddcuba.com/cuba/noticias/2009/disidentes-el-discurso-de-raul-castro-es-una-amenaza-clara

>>>>> As it was, their children weren't getting any education or health care
>>>>> to speak of.
>>>> (snip)
>>> What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:
>> (snip)
>
> What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:
(snip)
replied to.

>>>> They could go to school.
>>> Bullshit. As Nelson Mandela said, blacks were "denied them even the
>>> most basic amenities of life."
>> so they could go to school.
>
> Only with Cuba's help (snip)

Nope.
Within the local system and with international help.

>> IN Cuba the most basic amenities are denied to the people.
>
> Only in your genocidal wet dreams, Mr. Lobbyist. Despite your best
> efforts, Cubans are still able to maintain the best health care and
> education system in Latin America. They are e
(snip)

Castro has reduced the rationing and is introducing even more restriction.
Food imports fell by 30%.
Water supply is erratic and scarce.
Electricity comes and goes.
Apartheid hospitals lack all what the tourist hospitals have.

>>>>>> In Cuba the regime controls all aspects of life.
>>>>> Bullshit. There is also a private sector in Cuba,(snip)
>>> What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:
>>> Bullshit. There is also a private sector in Cuba, (snip)
>
> What PL snipped for all too obvious reasons:
>
> Bullshit.(snip)

replied to

>>>> Nope.
>>> A blatant lie. Officially, about 10% of the economy in the private
>>> sector. And that probably doesn't count the black market.
>> and all private sector legal jobs are controlled via the "patente"
>> licensing system.
>
> So what? If they pay their taxes, they can do whatever they want with
> their money (snip)

but if they are seen to oppose the regime they lose their "patente" and they lose all access to money.
the people have no protection against the regime.

>> The aim of the regime is to force people in to the illegal sector by
>> denying them all access to legal means of survival and then to put them
>> in jail for "common law" offenses denying any link with their political
>> activities.
>
> [snip]
>
> Even if that were true,

it is true and you can't deny it.

> if they had any public support,(snip)

They have as the polls show but Cuba is an island (no front line states) with a heavier repression and more totalitarian system than SA ever was.

>>>> Do you have proof that they don't get support from Cubans abroad?
>>> They get money from the anti-Cuba mafia in Miami, it is true.(snip)
>> Thanks for admitting they get help from Cubans abroad.
>>
>
> Thanks for admitting they get money from the anti-Cuba mafia (snip)

You call anyone that opposes Castro "anti Cuban" or "mafia".
Fact is: your lie was exposed and you now admit that people in Cuba get help from Cubans abroad. Not just dissidents, but 60% of the population.

>>>> They get support from Cubans in Cuba and abroad.
>>> [snip]
>>> Very evasive, Mr. Lobbyist. But thanks for confirming you have no proof that any substantial amount of money being raised within Cuba by these "dissidents" of yours -- because they have almost no public support on the island.
>> (snip)
>>
>> Just confirmed by you.
>>
> [snip]
>
> You mean you just confirmed again you have no proof
(snip)

I have shown and you have confirmed that Cubans - in the country and in exile - and international human rights groups support these democracy activists.

So:
They get support from Cubans in Cuba and abroad.
=> confirmed by Dan Christensen
They also get supports of human rights organizations from all over the world.
=> snipped in despair by Dan Christensen as he can't deny it

What desperate Dan snipped as it exposes his lies:

57 year old pro democracy activist sacked from a job he held for 21 years upon orders of the State Security.

This is what Dan Christensen wants: no help for these people to survive so the Castro regime can crush them in to submission.

EXPULSAN DE SU TRABAJO A ACTIVISTA PRO DEMOCRÁCIA
2009-12-20.
Ana Margarita Perdigón Brito, Agencia Yayabo Press

(www.miscelaneasdecuba.net).- Carlos Manuel Pupo Rodríguez, de 57 años de edad, fue expulsado del trabajo que realizaba como técnico curador de tabaco en la UBPC La Reserva, de San Antonio de los Baños, provincia de La Habana, perteneciente a la Empresa Tabacalera" Lázaro Peña".

Pupo Rodríguez, expresó que él llevaba 21 años laborando en esa actividad, pero el pasado 16 la Presidenta de la cooperativa Maribel Santiesteban, el jefe de producción Julio González y el jefe de recursos humanos Ricardo González Valverde le informaron que ya no podría continuar trabajando allí.

El afectado, quien es miembro del Grupo de Trabajo de Cuba de la Sociedad Internacional de Derechos Humanos (ISHR por sus siglas en inglés) y había sido golpeado y detenido el 10 de diciembre, Día Internacional de los Derechos Humanos, por participar en una marcha pacífica, manifiesta que la medida laboral se debe a su actitud contestataria.

Carlos Manuel manifestó: "Esto fue por órdenes de la Seguridad del Estado. Denuncio al jefe de enfrentamiento de ese órgano, mayor Orlando Seguí, y al agente Sergio"; también agregó: "Ellos me dejaron sin medios para mantener a mi mujer y mis dos hijas; para colmo, ni siquiera me han dado por escrito la resolución, la cual estoy reclamando".

EXPULSAN DE SU TRABAJO A ACTIVISTA PRO DEMOCRÁCIA - Misceláneas de Cuba (20 December 2009)
http://www.miscelaneasdecuba.net/web/article.asp?artID=24862

THE STANDARD REPLY TO DAN'S LIES AND PERSONAL INSULTS.

again Dan Christensen shows what a hypocrite liar he is.
He is the one doing the "attacking" with his lies and slander.
As all can see I only post this piece that exposes his lies when he
has started his slanderous attacks.
That by the way is in general within a couple of exchanges on the
facts of the case involved as by then he is so stuck that he has to
resort to lies and insults.

Please note that lies combined with personal attacks only destroy
your credibility, Dan.

Dan Christensen knows I am not a lobbyist and that it is all just a
slander campaign.
As a good follower of Goebbels he keeps repeating his lies in the hope
that something will stick and that he maybe can mislead some people
that
don't know what he is all about.
Desperate Dan Is doing his bit in the slander campaign of the "rat
pack"
he is associated with. The contribution of his pals at the Centre
Ernesto Che Guevara in this group recently just shows what Dan and his
cronies are all about: lies, insults, slander and intimidation.

Actually: given your actions in the past Dan you fit the lobbyist
profile a lot closer.

You contact people in support of the Cuban regime and with the aim to
have them change the content of their website or change public
statements. You even pose as a "journalist" or "researcher" while
doing so.
The fact that you have been utterly unsuccessful at it and that only
your website suffered the removal of pages just shows what a bad
lobbyist you are.

Your Club Med, lobbying, CIA lies are exposed again


Links to the threads Dan produces his "lobbyist" misquotes from and
the exposure of his lies by others:

For those that want to see the full thread and the complete messages
in their context (which Dan Christensen desperately hopes nobody will
as it will expose his lies), here is a link to the threads concerned.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/5fb621a1396ecc6c/2602f5eb5bd1c2ed?hl=3D3Den=3DE0=3DA8=3DAAf5eb5bd1c2ed
http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/56e1a7b9ca6c61e3/9cfde811fd6c7414?#9cfde811fd6c7414

To Dan Christensen's great frustration his lies by now have been
exposed by various other people in other threads like:
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ac34bd501ab58b97?dmode=3D3Dsource
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda

Dan Christensen lied when he claimed I had stated that I had been at
Club Med in Varadero - a hotel he tried to depict as a sleazy sex
resort - to "lobby" people.
Just one example:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4b7720708da65ee0?dmode=3D3Dsource
Dan Christensen even suggested the whole trip was paid for by the CIA
thereby accusing Belgian officials of not only sexual impropriety, but
also of active corruption.
You see: Dan Christensen just doesn't know when to stop lying and gets
caught up in his "cloak and dagger" childish fantasies.
His lies are so over the top that it all become a big joke that people
can easily see though.
Here is one example of how serial liar Dan Christensen was exposed.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda?dmode=3D3Dsource

The lies of Dan Christensen about me that were exposed:
- his lie about me playing golf to "lobby": exposed. Dan Christensen
had to admit there were no quotes to support any of that.
- his lie about singles resorts and schmoozing: exposed as various
people stated that it is merely a family resort that even had a circus
school for children
- his lie about me being in Varadero: exposed as Dan Christensen had
to admit I never said I was there
- his lie that it were all "CIA junkets" exposed as Dan Christensen
ran like hell when he realized that this lie could expose him to legal
sanctions
- his lie that I had "self-confessed" anything: exposed by people that
put the snippets Dan Christensen abusively posts in context (as shown
in this message)
All Dan Christensen's lies have been exposed by various people.

as I said comrade
Dan: whenever you post your lies about me I post the truth about you.
Your record of lies, innuendo, insults and support of human rights
abuses discredits you.
All shame you brought on yourself by your attitude and actions.

The exposure of the "lobbyist" lie in further detail.

Dan Christensen's abuse of misquotes has been exposed over and over
again. He just aped the lie of another apologist that dropped that
specific lie very quickly. The guy is indeed smarter than stupid Dan.
When Dan Christensen tried to come up with his own "new and
improved" version of the lie he fell flat on his face.
He claimed I had been "lobbying" people In Geneva while his Rat Pack
pal "cuba libre" that stalked me then showed from an IP address from
which I had posted something that I was in Santiago de Cuba at the
time. One Rat Pack member exposing another's lies with the result of
his cyber stalking. Ironic.

Dan's other exposed false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=3D3Dg:thl174670614d&dq=3D3D&hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8

Again it is clear what a pathetic loser Dan Christensen is.

Below you will find what is behind Dan Christensen's slanderous
campaign: facts he can't deny.

- Frustration

I exposed Dan Christensen as a fraud in this group years ago when I
blew his "cover". In SCC he tried to portray himself as an
"independent
interested party" with no political agenda.
When I came across a blatantly different reply to a similar question
in a Stalinist e-group to which I had been invited I posted it to show
his lying hypocrisy.
Since then he has been pissed as hell as it undermined his lying
propaganda effort to mislead "those in the background" (his own words,
those that didn't have "local knowledge". He himself admitted in the
same e-group that propagandist like him can never "convince" those
with "local knowledge". In frequent exchanges he got some mad he often
forgot to keep up the pretense and made him show his hand and true
nature:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary
measures. In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in
the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining
these so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are
morally justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtxMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

That meant he was exposed a the hypocrite liar he is. It showed that
the false claims he made about others (support of genocide, torture,
abuses, ..) in fact only applied to him.

I have also frequently exposed his lies about facts and people in SCC.

Dan Christensen once claimed:
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=3D3Dsource&hl=3D3Den

Mr. Smith's own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the
Cuban government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,''
Smith
said during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the
United States: Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and
Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.
Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

Then there is the issue of his lying website: acting with a third
person I had pages removed (for violations of law, slander, ...), I
have shamed him in to changing it on
various occasions (adding links that would then expose his lies,
remove lying caption from pictures, ...) and I have in general exposed
the lies on it (on Amnesty International for example)

What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
now moved to:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/danchristienses/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one Dan didn't give until I shamed him in
to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=3D3DENG-CUB

where the only thing Amnesty international asks for "immediately and
unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.

Quote:

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience
(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.

" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
end of quote

- Dogmatic hatred.

Dan Christensen is a hard-line Stalinist. His first steps in SCC were
to defend Stalin and in other forums he has praised "workers
democracy" under Stalin.
He has admitted that he is ready to fight to the last Cuban (from his
comfortable armchair in Canada) for his cause.
By posting the reports from the international press, human rights
organizations and Cuban independent journalists I have exposed his
propaganda as a lie. That makes the man wild with rage.
As he like to see himself as the "victim" (he once claimed he was
being censored in SCC) he therefore lashes out at people claiming that
those that contradict him are "CIA" agents (as if the CIA would care
about a third rate liar as Dan) and professional "lobbyists" probably
to make himself feel that he is "important" and to explain away his
complete propaganda failure (portraying himself as "overcome by
unsurmountable institutional odds").

- Personal hate and the "rat pack"

Dan has suffered the trauma of having part of his website remove
after a long battle over the personal attacks and falsifications he
had posted there.
The frequent exposures of his lies and hypocrisy only fueled the
personal hatred.
Dan ganged up with various other propagandists that people that have
been attacked by them refer to as the "rat pack". I have been the
target of the lies and slanderous insults of this "rat pack".
They specialize in online slander (from posting private information,
attacking their business or businesses they are associated with,
inciting others to harass people, over accusing people of being "CIA
agents" or "lobbyists" to the worst things one can imagine) and direct
harassment (phone calls, letters, letters with razor blade or white
powder, loitering in front of people's houses,.. up to death threats
in France).
All they succeeded in doing was to dramatically increase traffic to a
website I participate in ( www.cubaverdad.net ) and to suffer the
consequences of their slander.
Dan Christensen had part of his website removed. The Centre Che in
France had their complete website removed and their "secretary" known
here as "cubalibre" real name François Valy was sentenced to 6 months
in jail for a whole series of abuses (including racism). A Spanish
"subsidiary" of the rat pack still has a surprise coming.
All because of their lies were exposed.

But then in the end this is what it boils down to: those that don't
have rational arguments find themselves exposed as the liars they are.
When that happens all they have left are the old
slander tactics: they attack the people that expose their lies in the
hope that they can intimidate them.
If Dan Christensen felt he had any chance to convince people directly
he would try to do so by posting facts and arguing facts.
He is reduced to snipping, posting the same snippets over and over
again, lies and slander.
As long as he and the rest of the "rat pack" (and their hangers on)
are reduced to that they expose" their own failure as Dan Christensen
does here every time.
Fine by me.

PL

"The Cuban government is based on lies and cheap propaganda. That is
why it is afraid of words and the truth."
Raul Rivero, April 2006, University of Sevilla
.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: Stop lying Dan Christensen
    ... AI didn't dare to criticize (snip) ... stating facts based on reports from respected international organizations like Genocide Watch. ... Your lies have been exposed when your ploy to use volume caloric / value data in a jumbled crappy calculation in a desperate attempt to mislead people. ...
    (soc.culture.cuba)
  • Re: Cubas Healthcare Horror - Dan vomits his usual stream of lies and insults
    ... I always post the facts that expose your lies ... The 1948 Geneva Convention on Genocide article 2 is quoted in a very ... The only reservations they had was about your "di$$ident" data, (snip) ...
    (soc.culture.cuba)