Re: More Democrats oppose lifting Cuban travel ban

Dan Christensen wrote:
( PL is going down in flames -- his beloved embargo rejected by the
international community, and even by those in whose name he wages this
cruel war on the Cuban people. But we always knew that was just a
pretext.)

On Nov 10, 5:54 pm, PL <pl.nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dan Christensen wrote:
Fixed typo
(snip)

Get a life, Dan.

Get a life yourself, you little crybaby!


Dan Christensen wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or just too
lame to bother with]

>
>>>>>> ``Any legislation that would seek to ease or lift sanctions . .
. would
>>>>>> send a devastating message to Cuba's opposition movement
>>>>> Amazing how such lies become common currency in the US.
>>>> Wrong country.
>>> RIGHT country, Mr. Lobbyist -- as we see here.
>> Not according to international organizations.
>>
>
> You mean international organizations (snip)


More snip and run. (snip)

Nope.
Replied to.


I mean international press organizations.

Who cares? (snip)

Everyone.
I see you snipped the link that showed you lied again:

Lie have become common currency in Cuba.
SIP: En Cuba hay 27 periodistas presos por desacato al régimen -
Internacional - EL UNIVERSAL (8 November 2009)
http://www.eluniversal.com/2009/11/08/int_ava_sip:-en-cuba-hay-27_08A3022491.shtml

>>>>> In fact, the
>>>>> "opposition" movement in Cuba has OPPOSED the US embargo for years.
>>>> (snip)
>>> What PL snipped for obvious reasons:
>> (snip)
> What PL snipped for obvious reasons AGAIN!:
(snip)
actually replied to.


You mean you actually avoided the main issue here: even Cuban
dissidents (snip)

Nope.
Some are opposed, others aren't.

>>>> Leading dissidents have asked the US to end the trade sanctions on
food
>>>> and medicine as a gesture.
>>>> It has.
>>> Wrong again,(snip)
>
> What PL also snipped for obvious reasons:
>
> Wrong again, (snip)
answered


STILL in denial,(snip)

Nope.
Still exposing your lies.

>> The US is Cuba's largest food supplier since 2001.
>>
>
> Sadly for you, (snip)


What PL also snipped for obvious reasons:

Sadly for you, it seems no one outside your tiny circle (snip)

In fact the whole world isn't buying your false claim the trade sanctions are genocide as you yourself have shown here over and over again by failing to post even one quote from a reputable organization saying so.


sadly for you a fact confirmed by even the Cuban regime.

[snip more of the same old Nazi-style lies and rationalizations]

No rationalizations.
Facts.

Cuba's declining trade betrays depth of its crisis

"The United States, which is Cuba's fifth trading partner despite its
47-year-old trade embargo against the island, said sales to Cuba totaled
$383.8 million through August, down 23 percent."

Cuba's declining trade betrays depth of its crisis | Reuters (20 October
2009)
http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Cuba/idUSTRE59J5A620091020?sp=true
http://cubadata.blogspot.com/2009/10/cubas-declining-trade-betrays-depth-of.html

Reuteman: The Cuba question: To trade or not to trade?

"In 2005, the United States became the island's biggest food supplier."

Reuteman: The Cuba question: To trade or not to trade?
January 14, 2006
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_82_4387989,00.html
http://cubadata.blogspot.com/2006/01/cuba-question-to-trade-or-not-to-trade.html

Cuba Pins Hopes On New Farms Run for Profit
Program Part of 'New Socialist Model'

"The United States, which has maintained a diplomatic deep freeze and a
punishing economic blockade against the island for almost 50 years, is
the island nation's largest supplier of food and agricultural products,
selling it an average of $350 million worth of beans, rice and frozen
chickens each year since 2001, when Congress created exceptions to the
trade ban."

Cuba Pins Hopes on New For-Profit Farms - washingtonpost.com (28
September 2009)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/27/AR2009092703316.html
http://cubadata.blogspot.com/2009/09/cuba-pins-hopes-on-new-farms-run-for.html

WFP:

In Cuba, which imports 80 percent of its food, iron-deficiency anaemia
is the commonest nutritional disorder: recent studies by the Institute
of Nutrition and Food Hygiene show that anaemia prevalence in the
eastern region is 56.7 percent among children under 2 and 20.1 percent
in children aged 2-5.

Support for the National Plan on Prevention and Control of Anaemia in
the Five Eastern Provinces of Cuba | WFP | United Nations World Food
Programme - Fighting Hunger Worldwide

http://www.wfp.org/content/support-national-plan-prevention-and-control-anaemia-five-eastern-provinces-cuba

Cuba, with a population of a little over 11 million people, imports about 80% of its domestic food requirements.

Cuba | WFP | United Nations World Food Programme - Fighting Hunger Worldwide
http://www.wfp.org/countries/cuba

"Tengamos en cuenta que Cuba prácticamente importa el 80 por ciento de
los alimentos que consume, para lo cual invirtió el año pasado más de 2
000 millones de dólares."

¿Volveremos a los años '90?
Por Magaly Zamora Morejón (AIN)
Martes, 30 de Junio de 2009 14:18
http://www.invasor.cu/index.php/es/sociedad/325-ivolveremos-a-los-anos-90

"Así señaló en esta ciudad Magalys Calvo, viceministra de Economía y
Planificación, durante una sesión de la Asamblea Provincial del Poder
Popular.

El país importa anualmente el 84% de los alimentos destinados a la
canasta básica, por lo cual eroga unos mil millones de dólares, y es
junto al petróleo el desembolso fundamental."

Necesita economía cubana aumentar producción de alimentos
http://www.granma.cubaweb.cu/2007/02/26/nacional/artic02.html

Food imports

2 billion:

"Cuba importa más de 80% de los alimentos que consume. La cuenta
ascenderá este año a $2.000 millones."
Raúl Castro exige más producción en Cuba
http://www.eluniversal.com/2008/05/28/int_art_raul-castro-exige-ma_880690.shtml

"Collective farm productivity is so bad, Cuba has been
forced to import over $2 billion a year in agricultural products."
ESR | October 12, 2009 | Cuba: Discovering personal independence (12
October 2009)
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1009/1009cubapersind.htm
Ronald R. Cooke is the proprietor of The Cultural Economist. This is his
first contribution to Enter Stage Right.

2.5 billion:

"Food imports cost 2.5 billion dollars in 2008, an amount the government
wants to reduce."
Balancing Cuba's Lopsided Budget
October 16, 2009
By Patricia Grogg
http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=15083

"La factura de alimentos llegó a 2.500 millones de dólares en el 2008."
Cuba recorta libreta de racionamiento - Yahoo! Noticias (5 November 2009)
Cuba recorta libreta de racionamiento
5 de noviembre de 2009, 04:30 PM
Por Rosa Tania Valdés
http://espanol.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/091105/latinoamerica/latinoamerica_alimentos_cuba_1

2008 imports from the USA

"In 2008, Cuba imported from the USA US$ 710 million of food and agricultural products"

President Obama should take the lead on lifting embargo against Cuba | Amnesty International (9 November 2009)

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/president-obama-should-take-lead-lifting-embargo-against-cuba-20090902


>>>> Castro reacted by throwing 75 of them in jail.
>>> They were jailed because they were illegal paid agents of the US
>>> regime. See:
> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2003/julio/mar1/26bager.html
> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/entrevistas/15once.html
> http://www.granma.cu/ingles/entrevistas/silence.html
>> (snip)
>> and all you can quote for that is the Castro propaganda machine
>
> All they had to do was follow the money.

Nope.
all they did was lie.

Still in denial I see. (snip)

Nope.
Still smart enough to see through a propaganda lie.


>>>> Most want a negotiated simultaneous end to both the sanctions and the
>>>> abuses.
>>> Wrong again. Like Paya (snip)
>> Sanchez, Beatriz Roque, ...
>> The dissident community is divided.
>
> Bullshit.

Fact.
please quote Beatriz Roque.


"I'm against the embargo. I would like that the embargo will be
lifted."
--Marta Beatriz Roque, PBS Online, July, 2001

Link please?
As usual no context.
I guess that is because she only referred to travel restrictions and nothing els as the context you have hidden shows.

MARTA BEATRIZ ROQUE (Translated): Because I believe Cuban society needs contact with North American society. We need to be in touch with capitalism.
Online NewsHour: Blaming the Blockade -- July 18, 2001
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/latin_america/july-dec01/cuba_7-18.html

More recent information shows she stepped back from that as well:

From 2005:
Martha Beatriz Roque, Rene Gomez and Felix Bonne used the occasion to strongly endorse President Bush's hard-line policies on Cuba, including restrictions that make it harder for Cuban Americans to visit relatives on the island.
Martha Beatriz Roque and Felix Bonne endorse hard line policies against Cuba - Cuba Politics News - Havana Journal http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/martha_beatriz_roque_and_felix_bonne_endorse_hard_line_policies_against_cub/

>> Cuesta Morua on on side.
>
> Who????? Someone in the queue for a US visa?

Nope.
The opposite.
Cuesta Morua, Arco Progresista.

Never heard of him. He doesn't seem to be getting much ink
internationally. (0 hits on this name in the English-language media at
Google News.)

5 in Spanish media:
http://news.google.be/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&q=Cuesta%20Morua%2C
but the we all know you don't speak the language.

57 links about the "arco progresista" in the recent news:
http://news.google.be/news?hl=en&q=arco%20progresista&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn

6650 hits on the web for "arco progresista" socialist
http://www.google.be/search?hl=en&q=%22arco+progresista%22+socialist&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

a party present in the XXIII Congres of Socialist International
http://www.cuba-europa.org/default.asp?page=&lang=EN

http://www.google.be/search?q=Manuel%20Cuesta%20Morua&hl=en&ned=us&tab=nw

and you say you are a "socialist"?

Thanks for showing you know shit about the Cuban dissident movement.

I know they are mostly lackeys (snip

Nope.
they are Cubans wanting change.
they serve no master unlike you.

>> Sanchez, Roque on the other and Paya in the middle.
>
> [snip]
>
> Sanchez and Paya have consistently opposed your beloved embargo
(snip)
Nope.
A lie.
Sanchez has always supported the dual way.

Huh?

Yep.

Paya has supported amongst other EU sanctions and the common EU position
on lots of occasions.


Neither Paya nor Sanchez have ever expressed support(snip)

Sanchez has supported the "dual track", and Paya vacillates.

> Roque has been back and
> forth -- maybe to negotiate a higher pay? (snip)

Nope.
Consistently supporting sanctions.


Another lie.

false as shown above.

"I'm against the embargo. I would like that the embargo will be
lifted."
--Marta Beatriz Roque, PBS Online, July, 2001

One of your usual misquotes:

As usual no context.
I guess that is because she only referred to travel restrictions and nothing els as the context you have hidden shows.

MARTA BEATRIZ ROQUE (Translated): Because I believe Cuban society needs contact with North American society. We need to be in touch with capitalism.
Online NewsHour: Blaming the Blockade -- July 18, 2001
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/latin_america/july-dec01/cuba_7-18.html

More recent information shows she stepped back from that as well:

From 2005:
Martha Beatriz Roque, Rene Gomez and Felix Bonne used the occasion to strongly endorse President Bush's hard-line policies on Cuba, including restrictions that make it harder for Cuban Americans to visit relatives on the island.
Martha Beatriz Roque and Felix Bonne endorse hard line policies against Cuba - Cuba Politics News - Havana Journal http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/martha_beatriz_roque_and_felix_bonne_endorse_hard_line_policies_against_cub/


>>>> As always you only give half of the picture.
>>> As always, your are denial, Mr. Lobbyist.
>> (snip)
>>
>
> What PL snipped for obvious reasons:
(snip)
replied to.

>> Nope.
>> I give the whole picture.
>
> You distort the picture.(snip)

Nope.
You do as shown above.

What desperate Dan snipped:

All agree that the Castro abuses should end.
Some oppose sanctions.

You mean MOST!


Nope.
All.
Please quote one that wants the Castro regime to continue.

Others (Paya) vacillate between supporting EU sanctions and not
supporting others.

He has NEVER supported any aspect of these cruel and inhumane US
sanctions (snip

False.
in the past all he asked was an end to the sanctions on food and medicine.
With the change to Raul and Obama he hopes for an opening.
That hope Raul has crushed already.

Some are very steadfast in supporting all sanctions.

Like who?

((snip)

Roque, Sanchez, Bonne, ...


> PS: As an antidote to PL's venomous person attacks here, (snip)

You are the only one that specializes in "venomous" attacks.
I just post the reply every time you post your lying personal attack.

THE STANDARD REPLY TO DAN'S LIES AND PERSONAL INSULTS.
(posted every time in reply to Dan Christensen venomous lies about me)

again Dan Christensen shows what a hypocrite liar he is.
He is the one doing the "attacking" with his lies and slander.
As all can see I only post this piece that exposes his lies when he
has started his slanderous attacks.
That by the way is in general within a couple of exchanges on the
facts of the case involved as by then he is so stuck that he has to
resort to lies and insults.

Please note that lies combined with personal attacks only destroy
your credibility, Dan.

Dan Christensen knows I am not a lobbyist and that it is all just a
slander campaign.
As a good follower of Goebbels he keeps repeating his lies in the hope
that something will stick and that he maybe can mislead some people
that
don't know what he is all about.
Desperate Dan Is doing his bit in the slander campaign of the "rat
pack"
he is associated with. The contribution of his pals at the Centre
Ernesto Che Guevara in this group recently just shows what Dan and his
cronies are all about: lies, insults, slander and intimidation.

Actually: given your actions in the past Dan you fit the lobbyist
profile a lot closer.

You contact people in support of the Cuban regime and with the aim to
have them change the content of their website or change public
statements. You even pose as a "journalist" or "researcher" while
doing so.
The fact that you have been utterly unsuccessful at it and that only
your website suffered the removal of pages just shows what a bad
lobbyist you are.

Your Club Med, lobbying, CIA lies are exposed again


Links to the threads Dan produces his "lobbyist" misquotes from and
the exposure of his lies by others:

For those that want to see the full thread and the complete messages
in their context (which Dan Christensen desperately hopes nobody will
as it will expose his lies), here is a link to the threads concerned.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/5fb621a1396ecc6c/2602f5eb5bd1c2ed?hl=3D3Den=3DE0=3DA8=3DAAf5eb5bd1c2ed
http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/56e1a7b9ca6c61e3/9cfde811fd6c7414?#9cfde811fd6c7414

To Dan Christensen's great frustration his lies by now have been
exposed by various other people in other threads like:
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ac34bd501ab58b97?dmode=3D3Dsource
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda

Dan Christensen lied when he claimed I had stated that I had been at
Club Med in Varadero - a hotel he tried to depict as a sleazy sex
resort - to "lobby" people.
Just one example:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4b7720708da65ee0?dmode=3D3Dsource
Dan Christensen even suggested the whole trip was paid for by the CIA
thereby accusing Belgian officials of not only sexual impropriety, but
also of active corruption.
You see: Dan Christensen just doesn't know when to stop lying and gets
caught up in his "cloak and dagger" childish fantasies.
His lies are so over the top that it all become a big joke that people
can easily see though.
Here is one example of how serial liar Dan Christensen was exposed.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda?dmode=3D3Dsource

The lies of Dan Christensen about me that were exposed:
- his lie about me playing golf to "lobby": exposed. Dan Christensen
had to admit there were no quotes to support any of that.
- his lie about singles resorts and schmoozing: exposed as various
people stated that it is merely a family resort that even had a circus
school for children
- his lie about me being in Varadero: exposed as Dan Christensen had
to admit I never said I was there
- his lie that it were all "CIA junkets" exposed as Dan Christensen
ran like hell when he realized that this lie could expose him to legal
sanctions
- his lie that I had "self-confessed" anything: exposed by people that
put the snippets Dan Christensen abusively posts in context (as shown
in this message)
All Dan Christensen's lies have been exposed by various people.

as I said comrade
Dan: whenever you post your lies about me I post the truth about you.
Your record of lies, innuendo, insults and support of human rights
abuses discredits you.
All shame you brought on yourself by your attitude and actions.

The exposure of the "lobbyist" lie in further detail.

Dan Christensen's abuse of misquotes has been exposed over and over
again. He just aped the lie of another apologist that dropped that
specific lie very quickly. The guy is indeed smarter than stupid Dan.
When Dan Christensen tried to come up with his own "new and
improved" version of the lie he fell flat on his face.
He claimed I had been "lobbying" people In Geneva while his Rat Pack
pal "cuba libre" that stalked me then showed from an IP address from
which I had posted something that I was in Santiago de Cuba at the
time. One Rat Pack member exposing another's lies with the result of
his cyber stalking. Ironic.

Dan's other exposed false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=3D3Dg:thl174670614d&dq=3D3D&hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8

Again it is clear what a pathetic loser Dan Christensen is.

Below you will find what is behind Dan Christensen's slanderous
campaign: facts he can't deny.

- Frustration

I exposed Dan Christensen as a fraud in this group years ago when I
blew his "cover". In SCC he tried to portray himself as an
"independent
interested party" with no political agenda.
When I came across a blatantly different reply to a similar question
in a Stalinist e-group to which I had been invited I posted it to show
his lying hypocrisy.
Since then he has been pissed as hell as it undermined his lying
propaganda effort to mislead "those in the background" (his own words,
those that didn't have "local knowledge". He himself admitted in the
same e-group that propagandist like him can never "convince" those
with "local knowledge". In frequent exchanges he got some mad he often
forgot to keep up the pretense and made him show his hand and true
nature:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary
measures. In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in
the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining
these so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are
morally justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtxMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

That meant he was exposed a the hypocrite liar he is. It showed that
the false claims he made about others (support of genocide, torture,
abuses, ..) in fact only applied to him.

I have also frequently exposed his lies about facts and people in SCC.

Dan Christensen once claimed:
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=3D3Dsource&hl=3D3Den

Mr. Smith's own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the
Cuban government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,''
Smith
said during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the
United States: Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and
Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.
Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

Then there is the issue of his lying website: acting with a third
person I had pages removed (for violations of law, slander, ...), I
have shamed him in to changing it on
various occasions (adding links that would then expose his lies,
remove lying caption from pictures, ...) and I have in general exposed
the lies on it (on Amnesty International for example)

What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one Dan didn't give until I shamed him in
to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=3D3DENG-CUB

where the only thing Amnesty international asks for "immediately and
unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.

Quote:

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience
(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.

" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
end of quote

- Dogmatic hatred.

Dan Christensen is a hard-line Stalinist. His first steps in SCC were
to defend Stalin and in other forums he has praised "workers
democracy" under Stalin.
He has admitted that he is ready to fight to the last Cuban (from his
comfortable armchair in Canada) for his cause.
By posting the reports from the international press, human rights
organizations and Cuban independent journalists I have exposed his
propaganda as a lie. That makes the man wild with rage.
As he like to see himself as the "victim" (he once claimed he was
being censored in SCC) he therefore lashes out at people claiming that
those that contradict him are "CIA" agents (as if the CIA would care
about a third rate liar as Dan) and professional "lobbyists" probably
to make himself feel that he is "important" and to explain away his
complete propaganda failure (portraying himself as "overcome by
unsurmountable institutional odds").

- Personal hate and the "rat pack"

Dan has suffered the trauma of having part of his website remove
after a long battle over the personal attacks and falsifications he
had posted there.
The frequent exposures of his lies and hypocrisy only fueled the
personal hatred.
Dan ganged up with various other propagandists that people that have
been attacked by them refer to as the "rat pack". I have been the
target of the lies and slanderous insults of this "rat pack".
They specialize in online slander (from posting private information,
attacking their business or businesses they are associated with,
inciting others to harass people, over accusing people of being "CIA
agents" or "lobbyists" to the worst things one can imagine) and direct
harassment (phone calls, letters, letters with razor blade or white
powder, loitering in front of people's houses,.. up to death threats
in France).
All they succeeded in doing was to dramatically increase traffic to a
website I participate in ( www.cubaverdad.net ) and to suffer the
consequences of their slander.
Dan Christensen had part of his website removed. The Centre Che in
France had their complete website removed and their "secretary" known
here as "cubalibre" real name François Valy was sentenced to 6 months
in
jail for a whole series of abuses (including racism). A Spanish
"subsidiary" of the rat pack still has a surprise coming.
All because of their lies were exposed.

But then in the end this is what it boils down to: those that don't
have rational arguments find themselves exposed as the liars they are.
When that happens all they have left are the old
slander tactics: they attack the people that expose their lies in the
hope that they can intimidate them.
If Dan Christensen felt he had any chance to convince people directly
he would try to do so by posting facts and arguing facts.
He is reduced to snipping, posting the same snippets over and over
again, lies and slander.
As long as he and the rest of the "rat pack" (and their hangers on)
are reduced to that they expose" their own failure as Dan Christensen
does here every time.
Fine by me.

PL

.

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