Re: What in fact and in Cuba obstructs people's access to adequate food supplies in Cuba
- From: PL <pl.nospam@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:49:55 +0200
Dan Christensen wrote:
PL has now snipped and run 25 times in a row. (snip)
actually I have addressed the issue 25 times.
Your "question" is no more than a desperate attmpt to get more snippets you can abuse.
Without the context any reply is meaningless.
What Dan Christensen snipped:
Facts are determining here.
Not giving a kid a candy is different from starving people in a concentration camp shooting anyone the approached the barbed wire.
In both cases food is withheld.
the morality is completely different.
the context decides.
You supply no context.
On Jul 28, 6:33 pm, PL <pl.nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here or too lame
to bother with]
Would economic difficulties experienced by the target populationAgain: these are no mere "economic difficulties". They are in fact the
justify [obstructing and constraining its government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines?] (snip)
result of criminal dogmatic mismanagement of the economy in general and
agriculture in particular.
That is your opinion, (snip)
Nope.
that is a fact.
Even Raul castro now admits that food shortages are the result of Cuban failure.
(snip)What you euphemistically call "economic difficulties" are in fact theWould "economic mismanagement" by the target population's government
result of criminal dogmatic mismanagement of the economy in general and
agriculture in particular.
justify [obstructing and constraining its government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines?]
It would justify corrective action as first and most effective
intervention and direct aid - even donated - if needed.
[snip]
Very evasive, (snip)
Nope.
factual.
A country that does not - no longer - produce enough food and that does not generate enough income in it's economy to import enough food without infinitely increasing it's external debt as it can't pay for the imports will inevitably go bankrupt and will depend on food aid.
Only structural and permanent adjustments to agriculture and the economy can solve the problem.
In Cuba both are totally linked to the political system.
What is worse is that Cuba even has refused food aid.
(snip)Thanks for confirming that the trade sanctions aren't the problem, Dan.Even Raul now stopped blaming the "embargo".He has only said its impact can be lessened, even nullified (snip)
[snip]
We will get to what "the problem"
as that - by your own admission - is the issue I am already addressing it. All you do is snip.
To keep it simple: the trade sanctions are in no way "genocide".
What you euphemistically call "economic difficulties" are in fact the result of criminal dogmatic mismanagement of the economy in general and agriculture in particular.
Even Raul now stopped blaming the "embargo".
The shortages aren't due to "US sanctions", but to dogmatic mismanagement.
and then of course the part that documents all.
The part that dan Christensen snipped in despair.
Before Castro Cuba was self-sufficient in its staple food rice with a lot higher per capita consumption.
After WW2 imported rice was difficult to obtain and costly, so Cuban
farmers had an incentive to grow rice. In 1949 Cuba produced 10 percent of domestic consumption. In 1960, the year after Castro came to power, the Cuban rice harvest was 400,000 metric toms, making Cuba for the first time self−sufficient in rice. During the decade of the fifties, Cuban producers had successfully adopted the latest methods of rice farming employed in Louisiana and Texas. From the point of technological expertise, rice production outstripped that of any other branch of Cuban agriculture; and in terms of money value, rice became one of Cuba's major crops.
By 1962, with Cuban agriculture socialized, the rice yield was reduced by 50%. The same year, as has already been noted, the rationing of foodstuffs was introduced, with the rice ration set at 6 pounds per person per month.
That lowered per capita consumption by two thirds.
More over, for low−income Cubans, for whom rice formed amore substantial
part of their diet, the reduction was even greater."
M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994, p.49−50.
A well functioning free market ensured that from a shortage in 1949 break even was achieved by 1960. Castro ruined the industry by 1962. In two years 50% of the annual need in rice were no longer met.
In 1966 the rice ration was again reduced by half to 3 ponds per person per month. that is down from 18 to 3 ponds since the start of the dictatorship.
The reason was: the deal that Castro himself had made with China on the
supply of rice fell through when Castro didn't deliver the promised support in their "polemic" with the SU.
(for details on the rice Crisis and the Cuba − China quarrel see: M.
Halperin, Taming of Fidel Castro, Berkeley: University of California Press, 1981, p. 195−207.)
"Thus in 1965, Cuban rice production had dwindled to 50,000 tons..."
M. Halperin, Return to Havana, Vanderbilt University Press, Nashville, 1994,p.50.
Why did Castro need to reduce rice productions even further: to grow more sugar to reach his (foolish) goal of 10 million tons of sugar in 1970.
He never made it, but destroyed the production of a staple food while at it. Gross incompetence. Criminal negligence.
At the end of 1989 the rice ration was 5 pounds. Down from an average
consumption of 18 pounds before the revolution.
Last I saw that is still the same outside Havana with a 20% larger ration of 6 pounds in Havana.
Even Castro admitted there was no hunger:
Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not, as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)
The Cuban Revolution, Chapter 7
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter7.html
No stand to attention and hee'd you "coma andante" (the little one)
"Castro took a few swipes at the U.S. trade embargo that has been in place since 1962, but made it clear Cubans have only themselves to blame for agriculture shortages."
Castro calls for tight finances in Cuba - CNN.com (26 July 2009)
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/07/26/cubal.tough.times/
The shortages are due to the fact that 50% of the Cuban arable land has been left unused for years while the state controlled farms having been allotted 2/3 of the land that was used had a productivity of only 25% of the independent farmers. These independent farmers were again hamperd by dogmatic control over their production and by lack of access to inputs.
Hunger in Cuba is the result of the Castro "clusterfuck".
Even Raul castro admits that now Mr. serial Liar.
It just shows that amongst the lying dinosaur you are the most stupid one.
What desperate Dan snipped for obvious reasons as the fact that no reputable international organization has ever referred to the US trade sanctions as "genocide" ever exposes his lies:
As far as Cuba and "genocide" is concerned":
Based on the principles in the convention on genocide
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/p_genoci.htm
Genocide watch has put your favorite dictator on their list.
see: http://www.genocidewatch.org
Also based on these principles and after reviewing the facts no reputable international organization has ever referred to the US trade sanctions as "genocide".
As I said in a reply to the exact same question in:
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/35ae065b721efdb2
As Dan Christensen knows very well that based on the reduction of reality he posts no sensible answer can be given.
It are the exact circumstances that determine one's assessment.
Dan is just looking for snippets he can abuse.
As Dan Christensen said he wanted to discuss Cuba, let's do so.
There we have all the data in place including Raul Castro's statement of June 26.
(Note how quickly Dan Christensen will "snip and run" once he has to debate facts)
Cuba's inability to feed its people is the result - as Raul confirmed himself on July 26 - the disastrous situation of agriculture in Cuba and of non-payment of suppliers as a result of the inability of Cuba to generate the cash to pay suppliers.
It may have been a "blessing in disguise" that Cuba had and has to pay the US as this keeps the supply line for 30% of the 80% of food consumed by Cubans that Cuba needs to import.
In Cuba's case the facts they haven't paid about 1 billion dollars to suppliers (some not paid for a year) would indeed obstruct a government's ability to obtain food.
What Castro said:
"Castro took a few swipes at the U.S. trade embargo that has been in place since 1962, but made it clear Cubans have only themselves to blame for agriculture shortages."
Castro calls for tight finances in Cuba - CNN.com (26 July 2009)
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/07/26/cubal.tough.times/
Cuba Moves to Decentralize Imports
July 21, 2009
HAVANA TIMES, July 20 - The Cuban government has decided to decentralize expenditures in hard currency for imports, which will now be managed by the individual ministries instead of a single centralized super account, reported Mexico's La Jornada newspaper on Monday.
Nevertheless, the daily points out that the new measure does not state the fate of outstanding accounts that have not been paid to foreign suppliers over the last seven months, estimated at around one billion USD
Cuba Moves to Decentralize Imports - Havana Times.org (21 July 2009)
http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=12010
Los exportadores valencianos llevan un año sin cobrar sus ventas a Cuba
A. C. | VALENCIA
Miércoles, 15-07-09
Las empresas valencianas sufren un retraso en el cobro de sus
exportaciones a Cuba que ya alcanza un año.
Los exportadores valencianos llevan un año sin cobrar sus ventas a Cuba
- Valencia_Valencia - Valencia - ABC.es (15 July 2009)
http://www.abc.es/20090715/valencia-valencia/exportadores-valencianos-llevan-cobrar-20090715.html
Cuba Verdad: Los exportadores valencianos llevan un año sin cobrar sus ventas a Cuba
http://cubadata.blogspot.com/2009/07/los-exportadores-valencianos-llevan-un.html
Even in these circumstances the Us have again accepted a loosening of payment terms.
Provision makes Cuba trade easier
Jerry Hagstrom,Agweek
Published: 07/20/2009
Provision makes Cuba trade easier | Agweek | Midwest farm news and ranch news (20 July 2009)
http://www.agweek.com/articles/?id=5090&article_id=14658&property_id=41
Note that recently:
- Mexico had to abandon part of the debt
- South Africa had to cancel $50 million in debt as Cuba couldn't pay
- Eurobonds had to be refinanced as they couldn't be paid
.................................
What Dan snipped including as this desperate lying slanderer snips, insults and lies in the hope of diminishing the impact of the "inconvenient truth" that I post.
As far as Cuba and "genocide" is concerned":
Based on the principles in the convention on genocide
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/p_genoci.htm
Genocide watch has put your favorite dictator on their list.
see: http://www.genocidewatch.org
Also based on these principles and after reviewing the facts no reputable international organization has ever referred to the US trade sanctions as "genocide".
As I said:
the world already has replied Dan Christensen.
No reputable international organization has ever referred to the trade sanctions against Cuba as "genocide". Only you and your propaganda cronies have ever tried to claim so.
Castro's regime on the other hand is on Genocide watch's list and has been for years.
see: http://www.genocidewatch.org
I guess the fact that the US is the 5th trading partner of Cuba and it's largest food supplier (about 30% of the 80% of food that Cuba imports) exposes your lies clearly.
Deal with it, Dan.
See:
The US is the 5th trading partner of Cuba and sold about 801 million dollars (mostly in food items) to Cuba in 2008.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/weblog/venezuela-china-y-espana-principales-socios-comerciales-de-cuba-en-2008/
(note: that would mean that the US mow provides close to 1/3 of Cuba's food needs 800 million out of 2.5 billion)
Also see
Despite embargo, Cuba imports daiquiris from US | Cubaverdad (15 May 2009)
http://www.cubaverdad.net/weblog/despite-embargo-cuba-imports-daiquiris-from-us/
And again all the sources that expose your lies about the food dependency of Cuba:
In 2006, according to the Communist Party official newspaper Granma, Cuba commercially imported nearly 85 percent of its food needs. For more
than a decade, it has also depended on food donations from the United Nations World Food Program (WFP) to feed more than 700,000 families in the five eastern-most provinces.
In addition, Cuba's capacity to import the food it needs, as well as other critical goods, has severely deteriorated with the collapse of key exports sectors, particularly sugar, and the suspension of large subsidies from the former Soviet Union. Currently, capacity
to import food has increased somewhat with the subsidies from Venezuela. A large portion of these food imports comes from the United States.
FOOD VS. FUEL: A FALSE DILEMMA FOR CUBA | Cubaverdad
http://www.cubaverdad.net/weblog/food-vs-fuel-a-false-dilemma-for-cuba/
"These included decentralizing farming from August 1 to ease access to
food in a country which imports 80 percent of the products it consumes
and last year spent 2.5 billion dollars on food purchases."
Power cuts and fewer beans for crisis-hit Cubans | Cubaverdad
http://www.cubaverdad.net/weblog/power-cuts-and-fewer-beans-for-crisis-hit-cubans/
En 2008 la importación del 80% de los alimentos esenciales le costó a Cuba 1.850 millones de euros y para reducir esa factura este año las raciones de frijoles, chícharos y sal se han recortado a la mitad. Los precios en los mercados agrícolas siguen congelados, nueve meses después de los huracanes, y faltan muchos productos. Las tiendas de divisas no ofertan pollo, picadillo de res, papel higiénico, dentífrico; el precio de la leche en polvo y las conservas es inasequible.
La paradoja económica cubana | Cubaverdad
http://www.cubaverdad.net/weblog/la-paradoja-economica-cubana/
From the WFP:
In Cuba, which imports 80 percent of its food, iron-deficiency anaemia
is the commonest nutritional disorder: recent studies by the Institute
of Nutrition and Food Hygiene show that anaemia prevalence in the
eastern region is 56.7 percent among children under 2 and 20.1 percent
in children aged 2-5.
Support for the National Plan on Prevention and Control of Anaemia in
the Five Eastern Provinces of Cuba | WFP | United Nations World Food
Programme - Fighting Hunger Worldwide
http://www.wfp.org/content/support-national-plan-prevention-and-control-anaemia-five-eastern-provinces-cuba
Agri-Food
Past, Present & Future Report
Cuba
March 2009
Although Cuba's agriculture sector has traditionally been vital to the
economy with such notable products as sugar, tobacco, citrus products,
and tropical fruits, it now imports approximately 80-85% of its
foodstuff requirements. In 1960, roughly 87% of Cuba's rural population
was engaged in agriculture production, and while about 66% of the
population is still engaged in agriculture, the sector lacks the
technology and investment needed to significantly modernize production.
Between the years 2000 and 2006 Cuba's agricultural imports almost
doubled. An estimated 15% of Cuba's total imports are agricultural.
http://www.ats.agr.gc.ca/latin/4678-eng.htm
Havana bling
Rory Carroll
12 April 2008 06:00
The most important change is in agriculture, in which mismanagement
has shrivelled cash crops such as sugar, tobacco and coffee and forced
the lush island to import 80% of its food. Now decision-making has
been decentralised and some restrictions lifted to give farmers more
incentive to produce.
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-04-11-havana-bling
Cuba imports approximately 80 percent of the food consumed by its 11.2
million inhabitants and had planned to spend $2 billion this year even
before the devastation wrought by Gustav and Ike.
http://havanajournal.com/business/entry/food-shortages-starting-in-cuba-is-=
the-system-freezing-up/
The island imports 80% of its food, at a cost of $2.5 billion, and its
huge trade deficit has soared this year by 70% to more than $11
billion, according to official figures out this week. That is only
partly covered by the $7.8 billion Cuba receives for "export services"=97
doctors and sports trainers sent to Venezuela in exchange for oil.
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=3D12851246
Although Cuba already imports 80 percent of the food that it's 11.2
million residents consume, analysts say the impact of the hurricanes
pushes the island into a crisis during a time of high food prices in
international markets.
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=3Dc87faaa=
b5329d7d51fedc165d5b9ad2d
Cuba imports 80 percent of the food consumed by its 11.2-million
inhabitants, making it highly vulnerable to the commodity price shocks
and foreign currency swings in recent months. Cuba's imports this year
are estimated at $2.5-billion, up 56 percent from last year.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/world/article946886.ece
But overall Cuba is still reliant today on imports for 80% of its
total food consumption, and thus extremely vulnerable to world food
price fluctuations.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2008/763/39410
IMPORTA 80% DE NECESIDADES
Sector productivo cubano, muerto
En 1958, Cuba produciÂa casi el 80% de los alimentos que consumÃÂa y era
el principal proveedor de hortalizas de EE.UU. Hoy es al reves: la isla
importa mas del 80% de la cesta básica y la mayor parte de los
alimentos viene del "imperio", su quinto socio comercial, a pesar del
embargo decretado en 1962. Actualmente, mas del 50% de las tierras
cultivables estan ociosas.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/42389
To save communism, Raul experiments with consumerism
Minor economic reforms by Castro's brother risk exposing inequality and
encouraging the desire for change
Rory Carroll in Havana
The Guardian, Monday 7 April 2008
"The most important change so far is in agriculture, in which
mismanagement has shrivelled cash crops such as sugar, tobacco and
coffee and forced the lush island to import 80% of its food. Now
decision-making has been decentralised and some restrictions lifted to
give farmers more incentive to produce."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/07/cuba?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews
Waiting for Obama | The Economist
This will be exacerbated by pressures from high food import prices (Cuba
imports around 80% of its food needs), falling nickel prices (a main
source of foreign exchange) and the hurricane-related losses. The
country's already huge trade deficit soared in 2008 by 70%, to an
estimated US$11bn.
http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12882233
Cuba News
Cuba imports around 80% of its food products and Raul Castro recently
implemented reforms in the farming sector in an attempt to stimulate
domestic production. Cuba will have to import more food or face shortages.
http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/research-units/cuba/news/cubanews.cfm
Cubasource (20 May 2009)
Cuba imports more than 80 percent of the food it consumes (EFE, 3/11/08).
http://www.cubasource.org/publications/chronicles/coc200811ec_e.asp
Note that Dan Christensen wants you to believe that he (no facts at all)
and his propaganda should be believed over the reports of:
- the WFP, a specialized international agency with a local office.
http://www.wfp.org/content/support-national-plan-prevention-and-control-anaemia-five-eastern-provinces-cuba
- the Economist (a respected UK publication with an research department
called "the intelligence unit" that prepares a report on Cuba each year)
http://www.eiu.com/index.asp?rf=0
- The Canadian government
http://www.ats.agr.gc.ca/latin/4678-eng.htm
- the Guardian (a left of center newspaper in the UK)
and Greenleft, ....
thanks for showing all I was right about your insults and slander
Please note that lies combined with personal attacks only destroy
your credibility, Dan.
Dan Christensen knows I am not a lobbyist and that it is all just a
slander campaign.
As a good follower of Goebbels he keeps repeating his lies in the hope
that something will stick and that he maybe can mislead some people
that
don't know what he is all about.
Desperate Dan Is doing his bit in the slander campaign of the "rat
pack"
he is associated with. The contribution of his pals at the Centre
Ernesto Che Guevara in this group recently just shows what Dan and his
cronies are all about: lies, insults, slander and intimidation.
Actually: given your actions in the past Dan you fit the lobbyist
profile a lot closer.
You contact people in support of the Cuban regime and with the aim to
have them change the content of their website or change public
statements. You even pose as a "journalist" or "researcher" while
doing so.
The fact that you have been utterly unsuccessful at it and that only
your website suffered the removal of pages just shows what a bad
lobbyist you are.
Your Club Med, lobbying, CIA lies are exposed again
Links to the threads Dan produces his "lobbyist" misquotes from and
the exposure of his lies by others:
For those that want to see the full thread and the complete messages
in their context (which Dan Christensen desperately hopes nobody will
as it will expose his lies), here is a link to the threads concerned.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/5fb621a1396ecc6c/2602f5eb5bd1c2ed?hl=3D3Den=3DE0=3DA8=3DAAf5eb5bd1c2ed
http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/56e1a7b9ca6c61e3/9cfde811fd6c7414?#9cfde811fd6c7414
To Dan Christensen's great frustration his lies by now have been
exposed by various other people in other threads like:
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ac34bd501ab58b97?dmode=3D3Dsource
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda
Dan Christensen lied when he claimed I had stated that I had been at
Club Med in Varadero - a hotel he tried to depict as a sleezy sex
resort - to "lobby" people.
Just one example:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4b7720708da65ee0?dmode=3D3Dsource
Dan Christensen even suggested the whole trip was paid for by the CIA
thereby accusing Belgian officials of not only sexual impropriety, but
also of active corruption.
You see: Dan Christensen just doesn't know when to stop lying and gets
caught up in his "cloak and dagger" childish fantasies.
His lies are so over the top that it all become a big joke that people
can easily see though.
Here is one example of how serial liar Dan Christensen was exposed.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda?dmode=3D3Dsource
The lies of Dan Christensen about me that were exposed:
- his lie about me playing golf to "lobby": exposed. Dan Christensen
had to admit there were no quotes to support any of that.
- his lie about singles resorts and schmoozing: exposed as various
people stated that it is merely a family resort that even had a circus
school for children
- his lie about me being in Varadero: exposed as Dan Christensen had
to admit I never said I was there
- his lie that it were all "CIA junkets" exposed as Dan Christensen
ran like hell when he realized that this lie could expose him to legal
sanctions
- his lie that I had "self-confessed" anything: exposed by people that
put the snippets Dan Christensen abusively posts in context (as shown
in this message)
All Dan Christensen's lies have been exposed by various people.
as I said comrade
Dan: whenever you post your lies about me I post the truth about you.
Your record of lies, innuendo, insults and support of human rights
abuses discredits you.
All shame you brought on yourself by your attitude and actions.
The exposure of the "lobbyist" lie in further detail.
Dan Christensen's abuse of misquotes has been exposed over and over
again. He just aped the lie of another apologist that dropped that
specific lie very quickly. The guy is indeed smarter than stupid Dan.
When Dan Christensen tried to come up with his own "new and
improved" version of the lie he fell flat on his face.
He claimed I had been "lobbying" people In Geneva while his Rat Pack
pal "cuba libre" that stalked me then showed from an IP address from
which I had posted something that I was in Santiago de Cuba at the
time. One Rat Pack member exposing another's lies with the result of
his cyber stalking. Ironic.
Dan's other exposed false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=3D3Dg:thl174670614d&dq=3D3D&hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8
Again it is clear what a pathetic loser Dan Christensen is.
Below you will find what is behind Dan Christensen's slanderous
campaign: facts he can't deny.
- Frustration
I exposed Dan Christensen as a fraud in this group years ago when I
blew his "cover". In SCC he tried to portray himself as an
"independent
interested party" with no political agenda.
When I came across a blatantly different reply to a similar question
in a Stalinist e-group to which I had been invited I posted it to show
his lying hypocrisy.
Since then he has been pissed as hell as it undermined his lying
propaganda effort to mislead "those in the background" (his own words,
those that didn't have "local knowledge". He himself admitted in the
same e-group that propagandist like him can never "convince" those
with "local knowledge". In frequent exchanges he got some mad he often
forgot to keep up the pretense and made him show his hand and true
nature:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary
measures. In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
........................................................................................................................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in
the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca
"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining
these so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are
morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtxMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca
That meant he was exposed a the hypocrite liar he is. It showed that
the false claims he made about others (support of genocide, torture,
abuses, ..) in fact only applied to him.
I have also frequently exposed his lies about facts and people in SCC.
Dan Christensen once claimed:
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=3D3Dsource&hl=3D3Den
Mr. Smith's own words:
'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the
Cuban government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,''
Smith
said during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the
United States: Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and
Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.
Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823
Then there is the issue of his lying website: acting with a third
person I had pages removed (for violations of law, slander, ...), I
have shamed him in to changing it on
various occasions (adding links that would then expose his lies,
remove lying caption from pictures, ...) and I have in general exposed
the lies on it (on Amnesty International for example)
What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
Link to the "report": (the one Dan didn't give until I shamed him in
to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=3D3DENG-CUB
where the only thing Amnesty international asks for "immediately and
unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.
Quote:
"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience
(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional release."
In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.
" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
end of quote
- Dogmatic hatred.
Dan Christensen is a hard-line Stalinist. His first steps in SCC were
to defend Stalin and in other forums he has praised "workers
democracy" under Stalin.
He has admitted that he is ready to fight to the last Cuban (from his
comfortable armchair in Canada) for his cause.
By posting the reports from the international press, human rights
organizations and Cuban independent journalists I have exposed his
propaganda as a lie. That makes the man wild with rage.
As he like to see himself as the "victim" (he once claimed he was
being censored in SCC) he therefore lashes out at people claiming that
those that contradict him are "CIA" agents (as if the CIA would care
about a third rate liar as Dan) and professional "lobbyists" probably
to make himself feel that he is "important" and to explain away his
complete propaganda failure (portraying himself as "overcome by
unsurmountable institutional odds").
- Personal hate and the "rat pack"
Dan has suffered the trauma of having part of his website remove
after a long battle over the personal attacks and falsifications he
had posted there.
The frequent exposures of his lies and hypocrisy only fueled the
personal hatred.
Dan ganged up with various other propagandists that people that have
been attacked by them refer to as the "rat pack". I have been the
target of the lies and slanderous insults of this "rat pack".
They specialize in online slander (from posting private information,
attacking their business or businesses they are associated with,
inciting others to harass people, over accusing people of being "CIA
agents" or "lobbyists" to the worst things one can imagine) and direct
harassment (phone calls, letters, letters with razor blade or white
powder, loitering in front of people's houses,.. up to death threats
in France).
All they succeeded in doing was to dramatically increase traffic to a
website I participate in ( www.cubaverdad.net ) and to suffer the
consequences of their slander.
Dan Christensen had part of his website removed. The Centre Che in
France had their complete website removed and their "secretary" known
here as "cubalibre" was sentenced to 6 months in jail for a whole
series of abuses. A Spanish "subsidiary" of the rat pack still has a
surprise coming.
All because of their lies were exposed.
But then in the end this is what it boils down to: those that don't
have rational arguments find themselves exposed as the liars they are.
When that happens all they have left are the old
slander tactics: they attack the people that expose their lies in the
hope that they can intimidate them.
If Dan Christensen felt he had any chance to convince people directly
he would try to do so by posting facts and arguing facts.
He is reduced to snipping, posting the same snippets over and over
again, lies and slander.
As long as he and the rest of the "rat pack" (and their hangers on)
are reduced to that they expose" their own failure as Dan Christensen
does here every time.
Fine by me.
PL
"The Cuban government is based on lies and cheap propaganda. That is
why it is afraid of words and the truth."
Raul Rivero, April 2006, University of Sevilla
.
- Follow-Ups:
- References:
- Question to PL: Are sanctions that obstruct and constrain a government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines GENOCIDE OR NOT?
- From: Dan Christensen
- Re: What in fact and in Cuba obstructs people's access to adequate food supplies in Cuba
- From: PL
- Question to PL: Are sanctions that obstruct and constrain a government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines GENOCIDE OR NOT?
- From: Dan Christensen
- Re: What in fact and in Cuba obstructs people's access to adequate food supplies in Cuba
- From: PL
- Question to PL: Are sanctions that obstruct and constrain a government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines GENOCIDE OR NOT?
- From: Dan Christensen
- Re: What in fact and in Cuba obstructs people's access to adequate food supplies in Cuba
- From: PL
- Question to PL: Are sanctions that obstruct and constrain a government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines GENOCIDE OR NOT?
- From: Dan Christensen
- Question to PL: Are sanctions that obstruct and constrain a government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines GENOCIDE OR NOT?
- Prev by Date: Question to PL: Are sanctions that obstruct and constrain a government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines GENOCIDE OR NOT?
- Next by Date: LA MALA CALIDAD DE LAS PIEZAS DE REPUESTO PROVOCA MOLESTIAS EN LOS CICLISTAS DE SAN ANTONIO DE LOS BAÑOS
- Previous by thread: Question to PL: Are sanctions that obstruct and constrain a government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines GENOCIDE OR NOT?
- Next by thread: Question to PL: Are sanctions that obstruct and constrain a government's efforts to obtain food and essential medicines GENOCIDE OR NOT?
- Index(es):
Relevant Pages
|
