Re: What "Cuba Libre" Could Mean for Investors

Dan Christensen wrote:
On Jun 1, 8:58 am, PL <pl.nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]

as usual Dan Christensen: insults don't change facts

Economía
Estudio: 'Un trabajador necesita más de una semana para comprar una caja
de leche en polvo'

El texto analiza y compara 'el poder adquisitivo de los hogares y la
población económicamente activa en Cuba' con los de Costa Rica, Honduras
y República Dominicana.

Redacción CE | 28/05/2009

Un trabajador promedio en la Isla necesita una semana entera de trabajo
para adquirir una libra de mantequilla, poco más de una semana para
comprar una caja de leche en polvo de 400 gramos y dos días para comprar
una libra de pollo, según un estudio presentado por el Instituto de
Estudios Cubanos y Cubanoamericanos (IECC) de la Universidad de Miami.

Patrocinada por la Fundación para los Derechos Humanos en Cuba y el Cuba
Study Group, la investigación concluye que "la compra de la mayoría de
los alimentos incluidos en la Canasta Básica de Alimentos representa un
reto enorme para gran parte de los hogares y personas ocupadas" en la Isla.

Según el estudio, dos factores fundamentales inciden en esta situación.
Por un lado, "la insuficiencia de los salarios y pensiones, los cuales
en su mayoría se pagan en la (devaluada) moneda nacional". Por otro,
"los precios relativamente altos que prevalecen en los mercados
agropecuarios, las tiendas de recaudación de divisas y el sector informal".

El documento, titulado "Análisis Comparativo del Poder Adquisitivo en
Cuba", analiza y compara en 56 páginas "el poder adquisitivo de los
hogares y la población económicamente activa (PEA) en Cuba con el poder
adquisitivo de los hogares y personas ocupadas en Costa Rica, Honduras y
la República Dominicana".

Los datos obtenidos revelan que "existen grandes diferencias" entre los
tres países, "particularmente pronunciadas en el caso de los productos
lácteos, las carnes, las grasas y las verduras y frutas incluidas en la
Canasta Básica de Alimentos".

La investigación estuvo dirigida por el profesor de Economía de Lehman
College, de la Universidad de la Ciudad de Nueva York; Mario
González-Corzo, investigador asociado del IECC, y Susel Pérez,
coordinadora del Proyecto sobre la Transición en Cuba, de esa institución.

Otros datos del estudio arrojan que mientras el trabajador cubano tiene
que dedicar 15,8 horas de trabajo para comprar una libra de carne de
pollo; esa misma compra requiere para el costarricense 2,1 horas; para
el hondureño 1,8 horas y para el dominicano 4,5 horas.

Una situación similar en la adquisición de costillas de puerco: 20,5
horas de trabajo en Cuba, 1,9 en Costa Rica, 3,0 horas en Honduras y 7,6
horas en República Dominicana.

En el caso de las carnes, el texto apunta que en la Isla "no fue posible
obtener datos e información con relación a la disponibilidad y precios
(minoritarios) de la carne bovina (o de res) debido a las restricciones
existentes que limitan la venta de estos productos y al hecho de que la
(insuficiente) producción nacional esta principalmente destinada al
turismo internacional".

Asimismo, para comprar una caja de leche en polvo de 400 gramos, en
Cuba, el trabajador promedio requiere emplear 57, 5 horas; en Costa Rica
1,1 hora; Honduras 5,4 horas y República Dominicana 11,4 horas.

"Para comprar una libra de cebolla, el trabajador promedio cubano tiene
que sacrificar 7,5 horas de trabajo, comparado con 0,3 horas (0,04 días)
de trabajo en caso del trabajador promedio costarricense, 0,9 horas
(0,12 días) de trabajo en el caso del trabajador promedio hondureño, y
3,8 horas (0,46 días) de trabajo en el caso del trabajador promedio
dominicano", detalla el estudio.

Los productos de la Canasta Básica que se incluyen en el estudio son
lácteos, carnes, avícolas, granos, cereales, azúcar, grasas, verduras y
frutas.

© cubaencuentro.com

Estudio: 'Un trabajador necesita más de una semana para comprar una caja
de leche en polvo' - Noticias - Cuba - cubaencuentro.com (30 May 2009)

http://www.cubaencuentro.com/es/cuba/noticias/estudio-un-trabajador-necesita-mas-de-una-semana-para-comprar-una-caja-de-leche-en-polvo-181989


The difficulty in gaining access to certain medicines and
treatments has
led to healthcare playing an increasing role in Cuba's burgeoning
black
market economy, sometimes termed "sociolismo". According to former
leading Cuban neurosurgeon and dissident Dr Hilda Molina,
[snip]
The only source ever quoted for these outrageous claims, to my
knowledge. (snip)
as I said: ask any Cuban.
The link Dan snipped:
Healthcare in Cuba - Wikipedia, the free
encyclopediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_of_Cuba



Thanks for confirming you can find no other, less biased source for these outrageous claims. (snip)
Otro problema es la corrupción entre los médicos. Muchas pacientes
prefieren pagar en efectivo directamente al médico por los servicios y
aseguran que es la única manera de recibir un trato más humano y
personalizado. Todo se compra en el mercado negro de la salud cubana:
discreción, anestesia y hasta la sangre. La otra opción es contar con un
"socio", o un familiar en la institución hospitalaria.
Detrás de las estadísticashttp://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y08/en08/22a5.html

Por otra parte, varias personas se quejan de que han tenido que pagar
para obtener un ingreso en los hospitales, soborno que va de 20 a 100
dólares. Los menos afortunados tendrán, pues, que esperar por un
escalafón que es constantemente alterado por los que pueden comprar los
servicios. cnet/24

SALUD PUBLICA / Crisis en la salud pública habanera - Movimiento
Sindical Independiente de Cubahttp://cubanet.org/sindical/news/y03/08120303.html

"Esta información contaba además en la historia clínica, y a pesar de
todo, los médicos hicieron caso omiso, pues nadie ofreció pagar la
cesárea, por lo que la hicieron parir, hecho que ocurre a las 10 de la
mañana. Alrededor de las 9 de la noche la sacan para el salón de
posparto, sobre una camilla, boca abajo, con las manos tendidas hacia el
piso, y transfundiéndole sangre y suero."

Muerte materna
Yosvani Anzardo Hernández
Bitácora Cubana, 15 de enero de 2007 - Holguín, Cubahttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/28140

"Luego está la oftalmología
privada donde se opera el paciente que elige y quiere pagar, igual que
en Cuba donde también existe la oftalmología privada", dijo el médico.
- soc.culture.cuba | Google Discussiegroepen (1 June 2009)

Castro reaviva la polémica por operaciones en Cuba
11.06.2006 | 13.19http://www.espectador.com/nota.php?idNota=70813http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/23398

CUBA La medicina en Cuba (Para los cubanos)http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=CUBA+La+medi...


With the literally millions of visitors to Cuba every year,(snip)

This is what Cuban report.
Your lies have been exposed.
You fell for it again and you "self-glorification" left you with shit all over your face.
Learn, Dan, I have access to a very large archive.
It is called the internet.
You must feel like the idiot you are now.
Good.

Despite the best efforts of all you embargo Nazis,(snip)
What PL snipped for obvious reaons:
(snip)
as it was insulting crap.
as usual Dan Christensen: insults don't change facts
[snip]
The truth is an "insult" to people like you, isn't it, Mr. Lobbyist?
Nope.
You turn to insults as you have no "truth" to post.
Calling people "nazi" isn't very truthful, Dan.
You are an embargo Nazi.

What PL snipped without indicating:

False.
Replied to.

You are an embargo Nazi. (snip)

Stop calling other people "Nazi" hypocrite.
you are the only one with Nazi attitudes:

You support a regime that:
- is on the list of genocide Watch:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
- does not allow freedom of speech - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the
past: the UMAP) - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- tortures opponents:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/torture_in_cuba.htm
- violates human rights - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently - like the Nazi regime
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books - like the Nazi regime
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated
system of
social control - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
.................
and of course there are your own words that show you attitude:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In
this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
...................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send
death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia.
Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called
dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the
circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote

You support and actively promote genocidal
trade sanctions against the Cuban people. (snip)
the trade sanctions are no "genocide" as you yourself have over and over
proven by failing to post even ONE quote from a reputable international
organization referring to them as such.

[snip]

Like an old Nazi, (snip)

as I said:

Stop calling other people "Nazi" hypocrite.
you are the only one with Nazi attitudes:

You support a regime that:
- is on the list of genocide Watch:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
- does not allow freedom of speech - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the
past: the UMAP) - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- tortures opponents:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/torture_in_cuba.htm
- violates human rights - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently - like the Nazi regime
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books - like the Nazi regime
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated
system of
social control - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
.................
and of course there are your own words that show you attitude:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In
this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
...................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send
death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia.
Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called
dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the
circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote


the US is that largest food supplier of a country that depends for 80%
on food imports.

Actually, Cuba imports only about 1/3 of its food.(snip)
Not according to the WFP, the Economist, ...
Get a life Dan.

From the WFP:

In Cuba, which imports 80 percent of its food, iron-deficiency anaemia is the commonest nutritional disorder: recent studies by the Institute of Nutrition and Food Hygiene show that anaemia prevalence in the eastern region is 56.7 percent among children under 2 and 20.1 percent in children aged 2–5.

Support for the National Plan on Prevention and Control of Anaemia in the Five Eastern Provinces of Cuba | WFP | United Nations World Food Programme - Fighting Hunger Worldwide

http://www.wfp.org/content/support-national-plan-prevention-and-control-anaemia-five-eastern-provinces-cuba

Agri-Food
Past, Present & Future Report
Cuba
March 2009

Although Cuba's agriculture sector has traditionally been vital to the
economy with such notable products as sugar, tobacco, citrus products,
and tropical fruits, it now imports approximately 80-85% of its
foodstuff requirements. In 1960, roughly 87% of Cuba's rural population
was engaged in agriculture production, and while about 66% of the
population is still engaged in agriculture, the sector lacks the
technology and investment needed to significantly modernize production.
Between the years 2000 and 2006 Cuba's agricultural imports almost
doubled. An estimated 15% of Cuba's total imports are agricultural.

http://www.ats.agr.gc.ca/latin/4678-eng.htm

Havana bling
Rory Carroll
12 April 2008 06:00

The most important change is in agriculture, in which mismanagement
has shrivelled cash crops such as sugar, tobacco and coffee and forced
the lush island to import 80% of its food. Now decision-making has
been decentralised and some restrictions lifted to give farmers more
incentive to produce.
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-04-11-havana-bling

Cuba imports approximately 80 percent of the food consumed by its 11.2
million inhabitants and had planned to spend $2 billion this year even
before the devastation wrought by Gustav and Ike.
http://havanajournal.com/business/entry/food-shortages-starting-in-cuba-is-=
the-system-freezing-up/

The island imports 80% of its food, at a cost of $2.5 billion, and its
huge trade deficit has soared this year by 70% to more than $11
billion, according to official figures out this week. That is only
partly covered by the $7.8 billion Cuba receives for "export services"=97
doctors and sports trainers sent to Venezuela in exchange for oil.
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=3D12851246

Although Cuba already imports 80 percent of the food that it's 11.2
million residents consume, analysts say the impact of the hurricanes
pushes the island into a crisis during a time of high food prices in
international markets.
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=3Dc87faaa=
b5329d7d51fedc165d5b9ad2d

Cuba imports 80 percent of the food consumed by its 11.2-million
inhabitants, making it highly vulnerable to the commodity price shocks
and foreign currency swings in recent months. Cuba's imports this year
are estimated at $2.5-billion, up 56 percent from last year.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/world/article946886.ece

But overall Cuba is still reliant today on imports for 80% of its
total food consumption, and thus extremely vulnerable to world food
price fluctuations.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2008/763/39410

IMPORTA 80% DE NECESIDADES
Sector productivo cubano, muerto

En 1958, Cuba produci­a casi el 80% de los alimentos que consumía y era
el principal proveedor de hortalizas de EE.UU. Hoy es al reves: la isla
importa mas del 80% de la cesta básica y la mayor parte de los alimentos viene del "imperio", su quinto socio comercial, a pesar del embargo decretado en 1962. Actualmente, mas del 50% de las tierras cultivables estan ociosas.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/42389

To save communism, Raúl experiments with consumerism
Minor economic reforms by Castro's brother risk exposing inequality and encouraging the desire for change
Rory Carroll in Havana
The Guardian, Monday 7 April 2008

"The most important change so far is in agriculture, in which mismanagement has shrivelled cash crops such as sugar, tobacco and coffee and forced the lush island to import 80% of its food. Now decision-making has been decentralised and some restrictions lifted to give farmers more incentive to produce."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/07/cuba?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews

Waiting for Obama | The Economist

This will be exacerbated by pressures from high food import prices (Cuba imports around 80% of its food needs), falling nickel prices (a main source of foreign exchange) and the hurricane-related losses. The country's already huge trade deficit soared in 2008 by 70%, to an estimated US$11bn.

http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12882233

Cuba News

Cuba imports around 80% of its food products and Raúl Castro recently implemented reforms in the farming sector in an attempt to stimulate domestic production. Cuba will have to import more food or face shortages.

http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/research-units/cuba/news/cubanews.cfm

Cubasource (20 May 2009)
Cuba imports more than 80 percent of the food it consumes (EFE, 3/11/08).
http://www.cubasource.org/publications/chronicles/coc200811ec_e.asp


Your favorite dictator on the other hand is on Genocide Watch's list:http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm


[snip]

GW's credibility was shattered(snip)

Nope.
Your lies were exposed.

Dan Christensen's exposed lie about Genocide Watch.

Dan falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number
from a book by Rummel. Another case of false claims of "private
information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime. Genocide Watch showed a figure
of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.

Dan Christensen fails to understand that his private lies can't refute
the public record.
He tried this one on a couple of times and always failed.

Do you deny Dan Christensen that you got the numbers wrong in your lie
and that the "exclusive" source you falsely claimed was used by Genocide
Watch (another "private" message) actually gave a LOWER figure than
Genocide Watch?

I have clearly shown that your claim that Mr. Rummel is the one and only
source Genocide Watch uses is false by proving that Mr. Rummel (whose
credibility you attack without proof) gives a different figure than
Genocide Watch (73,000 versus 75,0000). Genocide Watch correctly lists
Castro as a genocidal dictator because of his responsibility for the
death of thousands of people.

When confronted with your lie you turned insult in to injury by claiming
the "made an error in copying", didn't you?

As always: the links that expose Dan Christensen's lies:

Dan's lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ff0ab4c53757e8a0?dmode=source&hl=en

My exposure of his lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/a44230458e76b3c7?dmode=source&hl=en

Dan's pathetic claim Genocide Watch made a mistake:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8eeb4ad61f1463d4?dmode=source&hl=en


Cubans could leave by sea without any restrictions at all.
(snip)
They should be able to leave by any way and re-enter by any way freely
according to the international declaration of human rights.
[snip]
The US would have seen the continued exodus as an act of war
(snip)

Nope.

Then why did the US regime make an agreement to repatriate the vast
majority of those illegal Cuban immigrants picked up at sea b
(snip)

only because Cuba agreed to not apply its repressive laws against them.
The US freely returns illegal immigrants to all countries.
In the case of Cuba Castro has to wave the application of Cuban law
against these people.

The Penal Code also defines the crime of salida illegal del país,
"illegal exit from country." Under Penal Code Articles 216 and 217,
those caught trying to leave the country without the permission of the
government can be fined or imprisoned for up to three years if they have
not used violence and up to eight years if force or intimidation is
used. In cases where passenger vessels or airplanes are hijacked, the
charge is usually one of piratería, "piracy." Under Penal Code Article
117, piracy carries a penalty of up to 20 years imprisonment, or a
possible sentence of death if there is loss of life or risk to the lives
of others.25

In the past three decades, thousands of Cubans have been imprisoned for
trying to leave the island without permission. In 1994, illegal exit
prisoners were thought to constitute the largest category of political
prisoners in Cuba. In 1990 alone, there were 335 inmates convicted of
illegal exit serving time in a single prison in Havana, the Combinado
del Este.26

Under the 1995 U.S.-Cuba immigration agreement, the Cuban government
promised to "ensure that no action is taken against those migrants
returned to Cuba as a consequence of their attempt to emigrate illegally."27

Freedom of movement
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm

When people can't vote at the ballot box, they tend to start voting with
their feet.

[snip]

Are you saying Mexicans can't vote at the ballot box?
(snip)

yes they do, unlike Cubans.

Cubans can't vote and face sanctions for leaving the country (like North Koreans).
Mexicans are freely returned to their country.
Cubans are only returned as long as Castro suspends his repressive laws.

The fact that Cuba needs these laws to stop people from fleeing the country shows how rotten the regime is.

http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm

Dan Christensen knows I am not a lobbyist and that it is all just a
slander campaign.
As a good follower of Goebbels he keeps repeating his lies in the hope
that something will stick and that he maybe can mislead some people that
don't know what he is all about.
Desperate Dan Is doing his bit in the slander campaign of the "rat pack"
he is associated with. The contribution of his pals at the Centre
Ernesto Che Guevara in this group recently just shows what Dan and his
cronies are all about: lies, insults, slander and intimidation.

Actually: given your actions in the past Dan you fit the lobbyist
profile a lot closer.

You contact people in support of the Cuban regime and with the aim to
have them change the content of their website or change public
statements. You even pose as a "journalist" or "researcher" while doing so.
The fact that you have been utterly unsuccessful at it and that only
your website suffered the removal of pages just shows what a bad
lobbyist you are.

Your Club Med, lobbying, CIA lies are exposed again


Links to the threads Dan produces his "lobbyist" misquotes from and
the exposure of his lies by others:

For those that want to see the full thread and the complete messages
in their context (which Dan Christensen desperately hopes nobody will
as it will expose his lies), here is a link to the threads concerned.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/5fb621a1396ecc6c/2602f5eb5bd1c2ed?hl=3D3Den=3DE0=3DA8=3DAAf5eb5bd1c2ed
http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/56e1a7b9ca6c61e3/9cfde811fd6c7414?#9cfde811fd6c7414

To Dan Christensen's great frustration his lies by now have been
exposed by various other people in other threads like:
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ac34bd501ab58b97?dmode=3D3Dsource
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda

Dan Christensen lied when he claimed I had stated that I had been at
Club Med in Varadero - a hotel he tried to depict as a sleezy sex
resort - to "lobby" people.
Just one example:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4b7720708da65ee0?dmode=3D3Dsource
Dan Christensen even suggested the whole trip was paid for by the CIA
thereby accusing Belgian officials of not only sexual impropriety, but
also of active corruption.
You see: Dan Christensen just doesn't know when to stop lying and gets
caught up in his "cloak and dagger" childish fantasies.
His lies are so over the top that it all become a big joke that people
can easily see though.
Here is one example of how serial liar Dan Christensen was exposed.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda?dmode=3D3Dsource

The lies of Dan Christensen about me that were exposed:
- his lie about me playing golf to "lobby": exposed. Dan Christensen
had to admit there were no quotes to support any of that.
- his lie about singles resorts and schmoozing: exposed as various
people stated that it is merely a family resort that even had a circus
school for children
- his lie about me being in Varadero: exposed as Dan Christensen had
to admit I never said I was there
- his lie that it were all "CIA junkets" exposed as Dan Christensen
ran like hell when he realized that this lie could expose him to legal
sanctions
- his lie that I had "self-confessed" anything: exposed by people that
put the snippets Dan Christensen abusively posts in context (as shown
in this message)
All Dan Christensen's lies have been exposed by various people.

as I said comrade
Dan: whenever you post your lies about me I post the truth about you.
Your record of lies, innuendo, insults and support of human rights
abuses discredits you.
All shame you brought on yourself by your attitude and actions.

The exposure of the "lobbyist" lie in further detail.

Dan Christensen's abuse of misquotes has been exposed over and over
again. He just aped the lie of another apologist that dropped that
specific lie very quickly. The guy is indeed smarter than stupid Dan.
When Dan Christensen tried to come up with his own "new and
improved" version of the lie he fell flat on his face.
He claimed I had been "lobbying" people In Geneva while his Rat Pack
pal "cuba libre" that stalked me then showed from an IP address from
which I had posted something that I was in Santiago de Cuba at the
time. One Rat Pack member exposing another's lies with the result of
his cyber stalking. Ironic.

Dan's other exposed false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=3D3Dg:thl174670614d&dq=3D3D&hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8

Again it is clear what a pathetic loser Dan Christensen is.

Below you will find what is behind Dan Christensen's slanderous
campaign: facts he can't deny.

- Frustration

I exposed Dan Christensen as a fraud in this group years ago when I
blew his "cover". In SCC he tried to portray himself as an
"independent
interested party" with no political agenda.
When I came across a blatantly different reply to a similar question
in a Stalinist e-group to which I had been invited I posted it to show
his lying hypocrisy.
Since then he has been pissed as hell as it undermined his lying
propaganda effort to mislead "those in the background" (his own words,
those that didn't have "local knowledge". He himself admitted in the
same e-group that propagandist like him can never "convince" those
with "local knowledge". In frequent exchanges he got some mad he often
forgot to keep up the pretense and made him show his hand and true
nature:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary
measures. In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
...............................................................................................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in
the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining
these so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are
morally justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtxMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

That meant he was exposed a the hypocrite liar he is. It showed that
the false claims he made about others (support of genocide, torture,
abuses, ..) in fact only applied to him.

I have also frequently exposed his lies about facts and people in SCC.

Dan Christensen once claimed:
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=3D3Dsource&hl=3D3Den

Mr. Smith's own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the
Cuban government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,''
Smith
said during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the
United States: Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and
Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.
Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

Then there is the issue of his lying website: acting with a third
person I had pages removed (for violations of law, slander, ...), I
have shamed him in to changing it on
various occasions (adding links that would then expose his lies,
remove lying caption from pictures, ...) and I have in general exposed
the lies on it (on Amnesty International for example)

What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one Dan didn't give until I shamed him in
to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=3D3DENG-CUB

where the only thing Amnesty international asks for "immediately and
unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.

Quote:

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience
(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.

" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
end of quote

- Dogmatic hatred.

Dan Christensen is a hard-line Stalinist. His first steps in SCC were
to defend Stalin and in other forums he has praised "workers
democracy" under Stalin.
He has admitted that he is ready to fight to the last Cuban (from his
comfortable armchair in Canada) for his cause.
By posting the reports from the international press, human rights
organizations and Cuban independent journalists I have exposed his
propaganda as a lie. That makes the man wild with rage.
As he like to see himself as the "victim" (he once claimed he was
being censored in SCC) he therefore lashes out at people claiming that
those that contradict him are "CIA" agents (as if the CIA would care
about a third rate liar as Dan) and professional "lobbyists" probably
to make himself feel that he is "important" and to explain away his
complete propaganda failure (portraying himself as "overcome by
unsurmountable institutional odds").

- Personal hate and the "rat pack"

Dan has suffered the trauma of having part of his website remove
after a long battle over the personal attacks and falsifications he
had posted there.
The frequent exposures of his lies and hypocrisy only fueled the
personal hatred.
Dan ganged up with various other propagandists that people that have
been attacked by them refer to as the "rat pack". I have been the
target of the lies and slanderous insults of this "rat pack".
They specialize in online slander (from posting private information,
attacking their business or businesses they are associated with,
inciting others to harass people, over accusing people of being "CIA
agents" or "lobbyists" to the worst things one can imagine) and direct
harassment (phone calls, letters, letters with razor blade or white
powder, loitering in front of people's houses,.. up to death threats
in France).
All they succeeded in doing was to dramatically increase traffic to a
website I participate in ( www.cubaverdad.net ) and to suffer the
consequences of their slander.
Dan Christensen had part of his website removed. The Centre Che in
France had their complete website removed and their "secretary" known
here as "cubalibre" was sentenced to 6 months in jail for a whole
series of abuses. A Spanish "subsidiary" of the rat pack still has a
surprise coming.
All because of their lies were exposed.

But then in the end this is what it boils down to: those that don't
have rational arguments find themselves exposed as the liars they are.
When that happens all they have left are the old
slander tactics: they attack the people that expose their lies in the
hope that they can intimidate them.
If Dan Christensen felt he had any chance to convince people directly
he would try to do so by posting facts and arguing facts.
He is reduced to snipping, posting the same snippets over and over
again, lies and slander.
As long as he and the rest of the "rat pack" (and their hangers on)
are reduced to that they expose" their own failure as Dan Christensen
does here every time.
Fine by me.

PL

"The Cuban government is based on lies and cheap propaganda. That is
why it is afraid of words and the truth."
Raul Rivero, April 2006, University of Sevilla
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: What "Cuba Libre" Could Mean for Investors
    ... Again Dan Christensen is reduced to snipping facts and posting his ... Un trabajador promedio en la Isla necesita una semana entera de trabajo ... Your hypocrite lies are exposed again. ... It shows his hypocrisy and despair - and yours. ...
    (soc.culture.cuba)
  • Re: What "Cuba Libre" Could Mean for Investors
    ... Again Dan Christensen is reduced to snipping facts and posting his ... Un trabajador promedio en la Isla necesita una semana entera de trabajo ... Your hypocrite lies are exposed again. ... It shows his hypocrisy and despair - and yours. ...
    (soc.culture.cuba)
  • Re: What "Cuba Libre" Could Mean for Investors
    ... 'Un trabajador necesita más de una semana para comprar una caja ... Un trabajador promedio en la Isla necesita una semana entera de trabajo ... Your lies have been exposed. ... Dan Christensen fails to understand that his private lies can't refute ...
    (soc.culture.cuba)
  • Re: What "Cuba Libre" Could Mean for Investors
    ... 'Un trabajador necesita más de una semana para comprar una caja de leche en polvo' ... 2.Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. ... Dan Christensen knows I am not a lobbyist and that it is all just a slander campaign. ...
    (soc.culture.cuba)
  • Re: Turistas y embargos
    ... What Dan Christensen completely snipped as it didn't fit his outburst ... Flagrantly violating all rules of net-etiquette Dan Christensen ... hopelessly discredited by his 10 years of lies. ... Cuba depends on food imports for 80% of total food consumption and ...
    (soc.culture.cuba)