Re: Cuban Dissidents Shut Out of Conference on Cuban Revolution

Dan Christensen wrote:
On May 15, 2:41 pm, PL <pl.nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or to lame
to bother with]


In polls that really matter,
(snip)

What Mr. Lobbyist snipped for obvious reasons:

In polls that really matter, (snip)

Those "polls" don't matter as journalists and even the UN have reported.

on the "referendum":

But while no one was physically forced to sign the petition, many felt
obliged to do so, fearing they might lose their jobs or come under
scrutiny from ever-vigilant state officials who purveyed every
workplace and neighbourhood.

As a result, it is impossible to gauge how much support President
Castro has and how many signed the petition for a quiet life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2053060.stm

on the elections:

The UN's assessment of the so called elections is correct:
"the electoral process is so tightly controlled that the final phase, the voting itself, could be dispensed with without the final result being substantially affected"
See: E/CN.4/1998/69

See:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/elections_in_cuba.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/democracy.htm

None of the polls in Cuba matter as international journalists have stated.


The national elections held last year were widely covered by the
international media. (snip)

and don't mean a thing as shown.
castro gets similar results as other "unsung democratic heroes" like the North Korean Kim's, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, ...

But while no one was physically forced to sign the petition, many felt
obliged to do so, fearing they might lose their jobs or come under
scrutiny from ever-vigilant state officials who purveyed every
workplace and neighbourhood.

As a result, it is impossible to gauge how much support President
Castro has and how many signed the petition for a quiet life.


I disagree. (snip)

Your problem.
Doesn't change the facts.

Now up to 79% against:
So everyone in the US who has ever been dissatisfied with their
government wants to leave their country. E(snip)
I don't see the US blocking all people from leaving.

The point is, just because there is some dissatisfaction

"Some"? 79%.
And 25% of the population already left.
5% tries to get a US visa in the lottery.
Tens of thousands get the Spanish nationality.

doesn't mean
they want to leave.

So why does the regime needs a total block on freedom of movement?
As always the regime's acts expose your lies.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm

There must be a very good reason why Castro doesn't dare to allow people
to freely leave and re-enter the country, no?


Again, why should developing countries subsidize the training of
professionals (snip)

It isn't only "professionals", even old people, children, ...
ALL Cubans.
What is the "training" a 6 year old has gotten that needs to be "protected" by not allowing him to travel freely.
You are a hypocrite liar.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm

Poll: 79% of Cubans think Castro gov't can't fix problems
By Alan Gomez, USA TODAY
The first authoritative poll of the aspirations and attitudes of Cuba's
people reveals an overwhelming desire to elect the successors to Fidel
Castro, says the pro-democracy group that conducted the poll.
The poll, which was secretly conducted in Cuba by the International
Republican Institute (IRI),
[snip]
Republicans??? A(snip)
Yep, and the people of the Lexington institute you like to quote took it
serious.

[snip]

These are not the people at the Lexington institute.(snip)

nope.
But the Lexington Institute did accept the results as shown by their comments.

> The days of Batista when the communist supported him.
[snip]
Ah, so he was actually a Soviet-backed dictator. (snip)
Nope.
he had a deal with the communists that supported him since 1940.
The communists even rejected Castro's attack on the Moncada as a
"bourgeois" act.
Again you show you know nothing of Cuban history
Give us the name of even member of the Batista regime that fled to a
communist country (snip)
Address the issue, Dan.

[snip]

(PL would actually have you believe that Batista was NOT a US-backed
dictator at all. (snip)

evasive as usual.
Cowardly Dan Christensen is running because he got his ass kicked and can't refute the facts.

Address the issue, Dan.

Did the communists support Batista in the 1940 elections yes or no?
Did the communists reject the Moncada attack yes or no?
When did the communist join the anti-Batista revolution?
Where the any communists in Batista government?

For the answers see:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/revolution.htm

Despite your best efforts, no one is starving in Cuba.
(snip)
But people are hungry and undernourished, no?
[snip]
Very few, if any. (snip)
13% isn't "very few".

Last data from the FAO: 13% undernourished.

[snip]

Outdated data (snip)

Most people agree the situation got worse over the last years.
Post any more recent data, Dan.

Also see: (from 2005)

The frequency of undernutrition in Cuban hospitals was 41.2% (95% confidence interval = 38.9 to 43.4), and 11.1% of patients were considered severely undernourished.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16743413


There you will see that the only countries the FAO lists in the
Caribbean and Latin America that required external assistance are
Honduras and Haiti. (snip)

This a crop report.

Some other reports:

FAO's emergency role in Cuba

In response to the emergency situation and a request from the Government, FAO's activities in Cuba aim to assist in restoring food production capacities. The Organization's emergency and rehabilitation interventions fall into two categories:

* Immediate response: by reactivating the urban and periurban agriculture network, which is an essential source of food for the urban population, and supporting farmers in rural areas to restart short-cycle crop production (e.g. through the distribution of seeds, planting materials and tools).
* Early recovery: by rehabilitating the food production capacity of small farmers while promoting good practices and conservation agriculture through training activities; and repairing nurseries, greenhouses and irrigation systems through the provision of planting materials and equipment.

FAO & emergencies: Cuba (20 May 2009)

http://www.fao.org/emergencies/country_information/list/latinamerica/cuba/en/


WFP to Assist Hurricane-affected Communities in Cuba
Published on 28 October 2008
share +

WFP is gearing up to assist 1.78 million Cubans affected by hurricanes Gustav and Ike, which pummeled the island in late August and early September.

WFP is gearing up to assist 1.78 million Cubans affected by hurricanes Gustav and Ike, which pummeled the island in late August and early September. The newly approved emergency operation will support the Cuban government as it responds to communities needing food assistance in areas that bore the brunt of hurricane damage.

"WFP is playing an important role helping people who suffered great losses in the storms," said Sonsoles Ruedas, WFP Representative in Cuba, adding that these were two of the worst hurricanes to strike Cuba in the past fifty years.

Rice, beans, canned fish

Over the next six months, WFP will provide food rations - comprised of rice, beans, vegetable oil, canned fish and CSB (a blended food compound of maize and soy fortified with vitamins and minerals) – at a cost of US$5.7 million.

As well as providing rations to communities that have been affected by the hurricanes, WFP will supply temporary food storage warehouses and liquid gas stoves to people who lost cooking facilities in the storms.

"Generosity of donors"

"As on previous occasions, we trust in the generosity of donors to carry out this operation which will allow us to provide assistance to affected populations," added Ruedas.

The new emergency operation will be carried out in close collaboration with the Ministry of Foreign Investment and Economic Cooperation (MINVEC) which will coordinate the timely distribution of commodities at a national level along with the Ministry of Domestic Trade (MINCIN).

WFP to Assist Hurricane-affected Communities in Cuba | WFP | United Nations World Food Programme - Fighting Hunger Worldwide (20 May 2009)

http://www.wfp.org/node/128

In Havana (where the food situation is the best): 77% of young children (0,5 -1.07) with anemia.
Overall 28% in the city.
http://www.who.int/vmnis/anaemia/data/database/countries/cub_ida.pdf


From the WFP:

In Cuba, which imports 80 percent of its food, iron-deficiency anaemia is the commonest nutritional disorder: recent studies by the Institute of Nutrition and Food Hygiene show that anaemia prevalence in the eastern region is 56.7 percent among children under 2 and 20.1 percent in children aged 2–5.

Development project 10589.0 will concentrate on the five eastern provinces identified as most vulnerable to food insecurity, supporting the National Plan on Prevention and Control of Anaemia to reduce anaemia to 15 percent by 2015. WFP and the Government have agreed a two-track strategy: WFP will provide iron-rich food and enhance local capacity to produce them in support of anaemic children; the aim is to extend access to an affordable food basket, establish production of enriched blended flour, improve household consumption patterns and support a phase-down.

Support for the National Plan on Prevention and Control of Anaemia in the Five Eastern Provinces of Cuba | WFP | United Nations World Food Programme - Fighting Hunger Worldwide

http://www.wfp.org/content/support-national-plan-prevention-and-control-anaemia-five-eastern-provinces-cuba


The "elections" are a sham.
On contrary, they genuinely reflect the will of the people.
(snip)
Nope.
they don't.
the regime controls who gets on the ballot.
Prove it. (snip)
easy:
Local candidates have to be "selected" in CDR controlled meetings: no

The vast majority in every neighbourhood are members of the CDR,
idiot!

as they are essentially forced to as the CDR determines who gets a job, a house, an education, ...
The CDR are the first line in the Cuban system of repression.

http://www.cubaverdad.net/cdr.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm

And anyone who wants to can reject any or all of the candidates
in a secret ballot. If the majority rejects any candidate in this way,
another candidate must be put forward.(snip)

and all candidates will be always subject to vetting and pre-approval by
the regime so nothing can ever change.
No effective remedy.
The UN rapporteur was right.

National candidates are proposed by these "selected" locals and need
approval from the state controlled organizations.


I know this must piss you off, (snip)

Yes it does as it is undemocratic.
all people should be able to stand freely as candidates.
thanks for confirming that this is not the case in Cuba and that all candidates are pre-vetted and pre-approved by the regime.

The whole thing is a sham as even the UN rapporteur reported.
You means this special rapporteur was a sham. His report was rejected
(snip)

Nope it wasn't.
It is still on the UN website.

This is for historical purposes only.(snip)

Nope.
this is part of the record.

Post your link.

Here is the link to our discussion of the resolution at:

(snip)

the link to the data on the UN site or was it so irrelevant that they didn't even keep it "for historical purposes only" hypocrite Dan Christensen?
You are such a joke.

and the standard text exposing Dan Christensen's lies about me:


Dan Christensen knows I am not a lobbyist and that it is all just a slander campaign.
As a good follower of Goebbels he keeps repeating his lies in the hope that something will stick and that he maybe can mislead some people that don't know what he is all about.
Desperate Dan Is doing his bit in the slander campaign of the "rat pack" he is associated with. The contribution of his pals at the Centre Ernesto Che Guevara in this group recently just shows what Dan and his cronies are all about: lies, insults, slander and intimidation.

Actually: given your actions in the past Dan you fit the lobbyist profile a lot closer.

You contact people in support of the Cuban regime and with the aim to have them change the content of their website or change public statements. You even pose as a "journalist" or "researcher" while doing so.
The fact that you have been utterly unsuccessful at it and that only your website suffered the removal of pages just shows what a bad lobbyist you are.

Your Club Med, lobbying, CIA lies are exposed again


Links to the threads Dan produces his "lobbyist" misquotes from and
the exposure of his lies by others:

For those that want to see the full thread and the complete messages
in their context (which Dan Christensen desperately hopes nobody will
as it will expose his lies), here is a link to the threads concerned.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/5fb621a1396ecc6c/2602f5eb5bd1c2ed?hl=3D3Den=3DE0=3DA8=3DAAf5eb5bd1c2ed
http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_thread/thread/56e1a7b9ca6c61e3/9cfde811fd6c7414?#9cfde811fd6c7414

To Dan Christensen's great frustration his lies by now have been
exposed by various other people in other threads like:
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ac34bd501ab58b97?dmode=3D3Dsource
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda

Dan Christensen lied when he claimed I had stated that I had been at
Club Med in Varadero - a hotel he tried to depict as a sleezy sex
resort - to "lobby" people.
Just one example:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/4b7720708da65ee0?dmode=3D3Dsource
Dan Christensen even suggested the whole trip was paid for by the CIA
thereby accusing Belgian officials of not only sexual impropriety, but
also of active corruption.
You see: Dan Christensen just doesn't know when to stop lying and gets
caught up in his "cloak and dagger" childish fantasies.
His lies are so over the top that it all become a big joke that people
can easily see though.
Here is one example of how serial liar Dan Christensen was exposed.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/848321c82da3bbda?dmode=3D3Dsource

The lies of Dan Christensen about me that were exposed:
- his lie about me playing golf to "lobby": exposed. Dan Christensen
had to admit there were no quotes to support any of that.
- his lie about singles resorts and schmoozing: exposed as various
people stated that it is merely a family resort that even had a circus
school for children
- his lie about me being in Varadero: exposed as Dan Christensen had
to admit I never said I was there
- his lie that it were all "CIA junkets" exposed as Dan Christensen
ran like hell when he realized that this lie could expose him to legal
sanctions
- his lie that I had "self-confessed" anything: exposed by people that
put the snippets Dan Christensen abusively posts in context (as shown
in this message)
All Dan Christensen's lies have been exposed by various people.

as I said comrade
Dan: whenever you post your lies about me I post the truth about you.
Your record of lies, innuendo, insults and support of human rights
abuses discredits you.
All shame you brought on yourself by your attitude and actions.

The exposure of the "lobbyist" lie in further detail.

Dan Christensen's abuse of misquotes has been exposed over and over
again. He just aped the lie of another apologist that dropped that
specific lie very quickly. The guy is indeed smarter than stupid Dan.
When Dan Christensen tried to come up with his own "new and
improved" version of the lie he fell flat on his face.
He claimed I had been "lobbying" people In Geneva while his Rat Pack
pal "cuba libre" that stalked me then showed from an IP address from
which I had posted something that I was in Santiago de Cuba at the
time. One Rat Pack member exposing another's lies with the result of
his cyber stalking. Ironic.

Dan's other exposed false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=3D3Dg:thl174670614d&dq=3D3D&hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8

Again it is clear what a pathetic loser Dan Christensen is.

Below you will find what is behind Dan Christensen's slanderous
campaign: facts he can't deny.

- Frustration

I exposed Dan Christensen as a fraud in this group years ago when I
blew his "cover". In SCC he tried to portray himself as an
"independent
interested party" with no political agenda.
When I came across a blatantly different reply to a similar question
in a Stalinist e-group to which I had been invited I posted it to show
his lying hypocrisy.
Since then he has been pissed as hell as it undermined his lying
propaganda effort to mislead "those in the background" (his own words,
those that didn't have "local knowledge". He himself admitted in the
same e-group that propagandist like him can never "convince" those
with "local knowledge". In frequent exchanges he got some mad he often
forgot to keep up the pretense and made him show his hand and true
nature:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary
measures. In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
..................................................................................................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in
the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining
these so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are
morally justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3D3Den&lr=3D3D&ie=3D3DUTF-8&selm=3D3DtxMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

That meant he was exposed a the hypocrite liar he is. It showed that
the false claims he made about others (support of genocide, torture,
abuses, ..) in fact only applied to him.

I have also frequently exposed his lies about facts and people in SCC.

Dan Christensen once claimed:
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=3D3Dsource&hl=3D3Den

Mr. Smith's own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the
Cuban government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,''
Smith
said during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the
United States: Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and
Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.
Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

Then there is the issue of his lying website: acting with a third
person I had pages removed (for violations of law, slander, ...), I
have shamed him in to changing it on
various occasions (adding links that would then expose his lies,
remove lying caption from pictures, ...) and I have in general exposed
the lies on it (on Amnesty International for example)

What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one Dan didn't give until I shamed him in
to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=3D3DENG-CUB

where the only thing Amnesty international asks for "immediately and
unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.

Quote:

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience
(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.

" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
end of quote

- Dogmatic hatred.

Dan Christensen is a hard-line Stalinist. His first steps in SCC were
to defend Stalin and in other forums he has praised "workers
democracy" under Stalin.
He has admitted that he is ready to fight to the last Cuban (from his
comfortable armchair in Canada) for his cause.
By posting the reports from the international press, human rights
organizations and Cuban independent journalists I have exposed his
propaganda as a lie. That makes the man wild with rage.
As he like to see himself as the "victim" (he once claimed he was
being censored in SCC) he therefore lashes out at people claiming that
those that contradict him are "CIA" agents (as if the CIA would care
about a third rate liar as Dan) and professional "lobbyists" probably
to make himself feel that he is "important" and to explain away his
complete propaganda failure (portraying himself as "overcome by
unsurmountable institutional odds").

- Personal hate and the "rat pack"

Dan has suffered the trauma of having part of his website remove
after a long battle over the personal attacks and falsifications he
had posted there.
The frequent exposures of his lies and hypocrisy only fueled the
personal hatred.
Dan ganged up with various other propagandists that people that have
been attacked by them refer to as the "rat pack". I have been the
target of the lies and slanderous insults of this "rat pack".
They specialize in online slander (from posting private information,
attacking their business or businesses they are associated with,
inciting others to harass people, over accusing people of being "CIA
agents" or "lobbyists" to the worst things one can imagine) and direct
harassment (phone calls, letters, letters with razor blade or white
powder, loitering in front of people's houses,.. up to death threats
in France).
All they succeeded in doing was to dramatically increase traffic to a
website I participate in ( www.cubaverdad.net ) and to suffer the
consequences of their slander.
Dan Christensen had part of his website removed. The Centre Che in
France had their complete website removed and their "secretary" known
here as "cubalibre" was sentenced to 6 months in jail for a whole
series of abuses. A Spanish "subsidiary" of the rat pack still has a
surprise coming.
All because of their lies were exposed.

But then in the end this is what it boils down to: those that don't
have rational arguments find themselves exposed as the liars they are.
When that happens all they have left are the old
slander tactics: they attack the people that expose their lies in the
hope that they can intimidate them.
If Dan Christensen felt he had any chance to convince people directly
he would try to do so by posting facts and arguing facts.
He is reduced to snipping, posting the same snippets over and over
again, lies and slander.
As long as he and the rest of the "rat pack" (and their hangers on)
are reduced to that they expose" their own failure as Dan Christensen
does here every time.
Fine by me.

PL

"The Cuban government is based on lies and cheap propaganda. That is
why it is afraid of words and the truth."
Raul Rivero, April 2006, University of Sevilla

.

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