Re: "Not enough to lift restrictions on visits and remittances" (Sun-Sentinel)

On Nov 18, 12:24 am, Dan Christensen <dch...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 17, 5:05 pm, PL <pl.nos...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's already debunked here, or too lame to
bother with]

 >  even after all these years! Much to the chagrin of

embargo-Nazis everywhere,(snip)

What PL snipped for obvious reasons:

Much to the chagrin of embargo-Nazis everywhere(snip)

Snipping it won't make the truth go away, Mr. Lobbyist.

What PL desperately hopes you won't see:

Much to the chagrin of embargo-Nazis
(snip)

You are the only one here with a "nazi" attitude comrade Dan.

You support a regime that:
- is on the list of genocide Watch:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
- does not allow freedom of speech - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the
past: the UMAP) - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- tortures opponents:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/torture_in_cuba.htm
- violates human rights - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently - like the Nazi regime
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books - like the Nazi regime
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated
system of social control - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm

You are the one who has made something of a career of promoting these
genocidal sanctions against(snip)

What Mr. Lobbyist also snipped for obvious reasons:

You are also the one who has repeatedly refused to comment on
(snip)

false.
I have always condemned all human rights abuses unlike you that
supports them (even death squads):

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary
measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
................................................................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

there are no "Genocidal sanctions" against the Cuban people.

Like most Nazis
(snip)

You are (as shown above) the only one with nazi attitude.
Castro is the one on Genocide Watch's list.
See:http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/
GenocidesandPoliticidessince1945withstagesin2008.pdf

the US is the largest food supplier of Cuba.

Based on official US stats which you posted, US food exports amounted
to the equivalent of
(snip)

25 to 30% of the food Cubans receive in the ratuioning comes from US
imports.

according to Cuban sources (ministers, Granma, ..) they represent 25 to
30% of the food distributed in the rationing to Cubans

[snip]

Again, the rationing (libretta) system supplies only about 1/4 of the
food intake of the average Cuba. (The rest from other sources.)

Waiting for years to see how thay can afford, it, Dan.
You never dared to make a budget for a family of 4.
To your horror Cuban economists have and they have shown that Cubans
need 4 to 7 times as miuch income as they have to make ends meet.
75% of income goes to food with lots of people still going hungry.
75% of Cuban families can' make end meet.
in that context the US food is more than welcome and a large help for
Cuban people.
far from "genocide" indeed.

What I have always said - and what Cuban economists have confirmed -
that Cubans can't afford enough food to meet their needs.
Those with help from abroad or access to dollars from work struggle.
Those that don't have access to dollars - certainly those on extremely
low incomes like old age pensioners - suffer.
To settle this point on what Cubans can do on an average salary for
years I have challenged you hundreds of times to provide a budget for
a family of 4 on a 400 peso budget.
You never dared to.
See:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/search?hl=en&group=soc.culture.cuba&q=budget+family+four+author%3Apl&qt_g=Zoeken+in+deze+groep
http://groups.google.be/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/fb0480c73eaaebca?hl=nl

A pity for you is that Cuban economists have calculated that Cubans
need the equivalent of 4 ( even 7 according to one of your favorite
sources IPS) times the average salary to meet the basic needs of a
family of 4.
Cubans spend 75% of their income on food and 75% of Cubans can't make
ends meet;

Last data from the FAO: 13% undernourished.
Last estimate from Cuban economists:75% of families can't make ends
meet.
7% of the population needs WFP food aid and has done so for years.
Hundreds of thousands of children need food aid to alleviate anemia.

All very well documented and frequently posted.

Cuba toca fondo El 75% de las familias no llega a fin de mes mientras
el
Gobierno de Raúl Castro se propone mejorar las duras condiciones de
vida
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Cuba/toca/fondo/elpepuin...

Los bajos salarios y la crisis en Cuba Una familia necesita 1,600
pesos
al mes, pero el sueldo promedio es de 387 pesos Redacción de La
Opinión
28 de julio de 2007
http://www.laopinion.com/latinoamerica/?rkey=00000000000002034980

Ayuda alimentaria a Cuba:
http://aida.developmentgateway.org/SearchRouter.do?frame=1&sectorSele...

"Cuba's food imports grew 35 percent over the past two years,
according to government reports from last December. These figures,
along
with the rise in prices on the international market, prompted acting
President Raúl Castro to warn that it is essential to boost
agricultural
production."

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=38834
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/32995

Cubans receive their state salaries and pensions in regular pesos,
which
they use to buy a very limited range of subsidised rationed food
items,
or to purchase fresh produce in the farmers markets, where prices are
governed by the law of supply and demand..

An average family of four dedicates 75 percent of their salary to
basic
food products sold at subsidised prices, which barely cover their
minimum nutritional requirements.

The CUC, meanwhile, provides access to a much broader range of often
essential goods, including food, clothing, footwear, and personal
hygiene and household products - like powdered milk, cooking oil,
shampoo or hair conditioner - in a chain of hard currency stores.

However, "most Cubans merely buy cooking oil, tomato paste and bar
soap"
in these stores, said an economist who preferred not to be identified.

"This limited range of products on their shopping lists is a
reflection
of the overall low level of income in hard currency, which barely
covers
basic needs," he told IPS.

Although health care and education are free, and utility rates are
extremely low, a survey conducted in Havana at the start of the decade
found that a family of four would require seven times the average
salary
to meet all of their basic needs."

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33561

Thanks again Dan Christensen for allowing me to expose you as a
moronic
liar all over again.


(snip)

"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba
(snip)

That bis about 2% of their message

So what?

It just shows what a hypocrite you are abusing snippets as usual.

It shows you don't support Amnesty International's call for the
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions.

nope it doesn't.
those are your misquotes.
You are putting your own propaganda words in AI mouth desperate serial
liar.
the only thing amnesty international has ever asked for "immediately
and unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.

But then you make a habit of misrepresenting people's views and what
they said, don't you, propaganda liar?

"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the
Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith
said during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the
United
States: Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and
Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

Then there is the issue of his lying website: I had pages removed (for
violations of law, slander, ...), have shamed him in to changing it on
various occasions (adding links that would then expose his lies,
remove lying caption from pictures, ...)and have in general exposed
the lies
on it (on Amnesty International for example)

What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one Dan didn't give until I shamed him in
to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

where the only thing Amnesty international asks for "immediately and
unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.

Quote:

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
en of quote

You support human rights abuses in Cuba and abuse a snippet from
Amnesty's website to support these abuses while Amnesty in fact condemns
these abuses and asks for an immediate and unconditional end to them Mr..
Propagandist.
You will clearly stop at nothing in your lying propaganda.

But thanks for confirming that they have indeed called for
the unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions.

I did not as they haven't.
You can't quote them.

[snip]

A glutton for punishment, eh, Mr. Lobbyist?

Nope.
Just another opportunity to expose your lies.

As AI reported last year:

"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted,
(snip)

and it never used the words "immediate and unconditional" as indeed
Wayne Smith whom you misquoted as well never did.
If and when Amnesty international wants to say "immediate and
unconditional" it does so and it doesn't need your lying post-editing
at all desperate serial liar.
Thanks for again exposing your own lies.

Aagin teh proof of what a desperate liar Dan Christensen is:

"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the
Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith
said during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the
United
States: Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and
Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

Then there is the issue of his lying website: I had pages removed (for
violations of law, slander, ...), have shamed him in to changing it on
various occasions (adding links that would then expose his lies,
remove lying caption from pictures, ...)and have in general exposed
the lies
on it (on Amnesty International for example)

What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one Dan didn't give until I shamed him in
to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

where the only thing Amnesty international asks for "immediately and
unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.

Quote:

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
en of quote

And the exposure of the "lobbyist" lie.

Your abuse of misquotes has been exposed over and over again Mr.
serial
Liar.
When you tried to come up with your own new version of the lie
you also fell flat on your face , no?
Remember when you claimed I had been "lobbying" people In Geneva while
your pal "cuba libre" that stalked me then showed from an IP that I
was
in Santiago de Cuba at the time.

Dan's other exposed false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=3Dg:thl174670614d&dq=3D&hl=3Den&lr=3D&ie=3DUTF-8

A real loser you are.

Below you will find what is behind Dan Christensen's slanderous
campaign: facts he can't deny.

- Frustration

I exposed Dan Christensen as a fraud in this group years ago when I
blew
his "cover". In SCC he tried to portray himself as an "independent
interested party" with no political agenda.
When I came across a blatantly different reply to a similar question
in
a Stalinist e-group to which I had been invited I posted it to show
his
lying hypocrisy.
Since then he has been pissed as hell as it undermined his lying
propaganda effort to mislead "those in the background" (his own words,
those that didn't have "local knowledge". He himself admitted in the
same e-group that propagandist like him can never "convince" those
with
"local knowledge".

In frequent exchanges he got some mad he often forgot to keep up the
presence and made him show his hand and true nature:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary
measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
............................................................................................
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping
less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3Den&lr=3D&ie=3DUTF-8&selm=3DtirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining
these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=3Den&lr=3D&ie=3DUTF-8&selm=3DtxMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

That meant he was exposed a the hypocrite liar he is. It showed that
the
false claims he made about others (support of genocide, torture,
abuses, ..)in fact only applied to him.

I have also frequently exposed his lies about facts and people in SCC.

"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=3Dsource&hl=3Den

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the
Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith
said during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the
United
States: Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and
Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

Then there is the issue of his lying website: I had pages removed (for
violations of law, slander, ...), have shamed him in to changing it on
various occasions (adding links that would then expose his lies,
remove lying caption from pictures, ...)and have in general exposed
the lies
on it (on Amnesty International for example)

What Dan claimed on his website (the misquote):
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one Dan didn't give until I shamed him in
to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=3DENG-CUB

where the only thing Amnesty international asks for "immediately and
unconditionally" is the release of political prisoners.

Quote:

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."
en of quote

- Dogmatic hatred.

Dan Christensen is a hard-line Stalinist. His first steps in SCC were
to defend Stalin and in other forums he has praised "workers
democracy"
under Stalin.
He has admitted that he is ready to fight to the last Cuban (from his
comfortable armchair in Canada) for his cause.
By posting the reports from the international press, human rights
organizations and Cuban independent journalists I have exposed his
propaganda as a lie. That makes the man wild with rage.
As he like to see himself as the "victim" (he once claimed he was
being censored in SCC) he therefore lashes out at people claiming that
those
that contradict him are "CIA" agents (as if the CIA would care about a
third rate liar as Dan) and professional "lobbyists" probably to make
himself feel that he is "important" and to explain away his complete
propaganda failure (portraying himself as "overcome by unsurmountable
institutional odds").

- Personal hate and the "rat pack"

Dan has suffered the trauma of having part of his website remove
after a long battle over the personal attacks and falsifications he
had posted there.
The frequent exposures of his lies and hypocrisy only fueled the
personal hatred.
Dan ganged up with various other propagandists that people that have
been attacked by them refer to as the "rat pack". I have been the
target of the lies and slanderous insults of this "rat pack".
They specialize in online slander (from posting private information,
attacking their business or businesses they are associated with,
inciting others to harass people, over accusing people of being "CIA
agents" or "lobbyists" to the worst things one can imagine)and direct
harassment (phone calls, letters, letters with razor blades or white
powder, loitering in front of people's houses,.. up to death threats
in France).
All they succeeded in doing was to dramatically increase traffic to a
website I participate in ( www.cubaverdad.net )and to suffer the
consequences of their slander.
Dan Christensen had part of his website removed. The Centre Che in
France had their complete website removed and their "secretary" known
here as "cubalibre" was convicted to 6 months for a whole series of
abuses. A Spanish "subsidiary" of the rat pack still has a surprise
coming.
All because of their lies were exposed.

But then in the end this is what it boils down to:
those that don't have rational arguments find themselves exposed as
the liars they are. When that happens all they have left are the old
slander tactics: they attack the people that expose their lies in the
hope that they can intimidate them.
If Dan Christensen felt he had any chance to convince people directly
he would try to do so by posting facts and arguing facts.
He is reduced to snipping, posting the same snippets over and over
again, lies and slander.
As long as he and the rest of the "rat pack" (and their hangers on)
are reduced to that they expose" their own failure.
Fine by me.

PL

"The Cuban government is based on lies and cheap propaganda. That is
why it is afraid of words and the truth."
.

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