Re: US revives conditional offer to lift embargo against Cuba


"Dan Christensen" <dchris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:8yhJg.644$hM6.430@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"PL" <pl.nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Dan Christensen" <dchris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"PL" <pl.nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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[snip portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame to
bother with]

Even Sweden is "market oriented with the right to own private
property".


So what?
(snip)

It shows that all forms of socio-economic systems but the most extreme
form of State capitalism are acceptable under the US definition, even
socialist economies with a large public sector.

[snip]

It shows nothing of the sort.

Yes it does.
Here is the text:

SEC. 205. REQUIREMENTS AND FACTORS FOR DETERMINING A TRANSITION

[snip]

As usual when you lose an argument,
(snip)

Nope comrade Dan.
As usual you snip the data when you lose an argument.
Get a life.
You are pathetic.

Here is the text that exposes your lie.

SEC. 205. REQUIREMENTS AND FACTORS FOR DETERMINING A TRANSITION
GOVERNMENT.
(a) REQUIREMENTS- For the purposes of this Act, a transition
government in Cuba is a government that--
(1) has legalized all political activity;
(2) has released all political prisoners and allowed for
investigations of Cuban prisons by appropriate international
human rights organizations;
(3) has dissolved the present Department of State Security
in
the Cuban Ministry of the Interior, including the Committees
for the Defense of the Revolution and the Rapid Response
Brigades; and
(4) has made public commitments to organizing free and fair
elections for a new government--
(A) to be held in a timely manner within a period not to
exceed 18 months after the transition government assumes
power;
(B) with the participation of multiple independent
political parties that have full access to the media on an
equal basis, including (in the case of radio, television,
or other telecommunications media) in terms of allotments
of time for such access and the times of day such
allotments are given; and
(C) to be conducted under the supervision of
internationally recognized observers, such as the
Organization of American States, the United Nations, and
other election monitors;
(5) has ceased any interference with Radio Marti or
Television Marti broadcasts;
(6) makes public commitments to and is making demonstrable
progress in--
(A) establishing an independent judiciary;
(B) respecting internationally recognized human rights
and basic freedoms as set forth in the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights, to which Cuba is a signatory
nation;
(C) allowing the establishment of independent trade
unions as set forth in conventions 87 and 98 of the
International Labor Organization, and allowing the
establishment of independent social, economic, and
political associations;
(7) does not include Fidel Castro or Raul Castro; and
(8) has given adequate assurances that it will allow the
speedy and efficient distribution of assistance to the Cuban
people.
(b) ADDITIONAL FACTORS- In addition to the requirements in
subsection (a), in determining whether a transition government in
Cuba is in power, the President shall take into account the extent
to which that government--
(1) is demonstrably in transition from a communist
totalitarian dictatorship to representative democracy;
(2) has made public commitments to, and is making
demonstrable progress in--
(A) effectively guaranteeing the rights of free speech
and freedom of the press, including granting permits to
privately owned media and telecommunications companies to
operate in Cuba;
(B) permitting the reinstatement of citizenship to
Cuban-born persons returning to Cuba;
(C) assuring the right to private property; and
(D) taking appropriate steps to return to United States
citizens (and entities which are 50 percent or more
beneficially owned by United States citizens) property
taken by the Cuban Government from such citizens and
entities on or after January 1, 1959, or to provide
equitable compensation to such citizens and entities for
such property;
(3) has extradited or otherwise rendered to the United
States
all persons sought by the United States Department of Justice
for crimes committed in the United States; and
(4) has permitted the deployment throughout Cuba of
independent and unfettered international human rights
monitors.
SEC. 206. REQUIREMENTS FOR DETERMINING A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED
GOVERNMENT.
For purposes of this Act, a democratically elected government in
Cuba, in addition to meeting the requirements of section 205(a),
is
a government which--
(1) results from free and fair elections--
(A) conducted under the supervision of internationally
recognized observers; and
(B) in which--
(i) opposition parties were permitted ample time to
organize and campaign for such elections; and
(ii) all candidates were permitted full access to
the
media;
(2) is showing respect for the basic civil liberties and
human rights of the citizens of Cuba;
(3) is substantially moving toward a market-oriented
economic
system based on the right to own and enjoy property;
(4) is committed to making constitutional changes that would
ensure regular free and fair elections and the full enjoyment
of basic civil liberties and human rights by the citizens of
Cuba;
(5) has made demonstrable progress in establishing an
independent judiciary; and
(6) has made demonstrable progress in returning to United
States citizens (and entities which are 50 percent or more
beneficially owned by United States citizens) property taken
by
the Cuban Government from such citizens and entities on or
after January 1, 1959, or providing full compensation for such
property in accordance with international law standards and
practice.
http://www.soc.qc.edu/procuba/helm_law.html

The standard reply to Dan's "lobbyist" lie:

Lobbyist.

Quote me comrade Dan.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia. Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you. You can
not deny that you are a self declared Stalinist cyber activists who lives in
a nice 250,000 dollar suburban house in Canada (realtor site with images can
be given at your request) while playing the communist.
Stuck as you are without arguments all you have left are lies, personal
attacks and moronic innuendo

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on vacation
in Cuba (as the source IP
address of my posts in SCC at that time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl1746703614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the ones
below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced
the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear its
support for
the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you don't give)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade
sanctions in that report. Aren't they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
this
sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
"· to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


· to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your
lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced
the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear its
support for
the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and
abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a BLATANT
LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:
"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
· to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
· to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
· to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB


Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Stalinist
propagandists of SCC.

PL


.

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