Re: Danny caught in another whopper???


"Dan Christensen" <dchris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4c_Qe.171$hW.52@xxxxxxxxxx
>
> "PL" <pl.nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:2LZQe.181891$ZG2.10077283@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> "Dan Christensen" <dchris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:uCZQe.167$hW.15@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> "PL" <pl.nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:hqZQe.181879$qw7.9985169@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> "Dan Christensen" <dchris@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>> news:zgZQe.163$hW.27@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>> "krp" <web2457k@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>> news:0aXQe.22065$yv2.14038@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> I sent Danny the video of the repression of protesters in Havana.
>>>>>> NOW let's watch him LIE about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> First you say this video has something to do with access to hosptials.
>>>>> Now, it's about "repression" of protesters? (snip)
>>>>
>>>> both happen in Cuba, no?
>>>> There is a system of apartertheid in health care and all dissent is
>>>> repressed.
>>>>
>>>> More: www.cubaverdad.net
>>>>
>>
>> I see you don't dare to deny that in Cuba all dissent is repressed.
>>
>
> Recently debunked here. (snip)

You can't debunk reality comrade Dan.
You just snipped and ran.
Address the issue comrade Dan.

Cuba has such repressive laws that all dissent is quashed:
(from www.cubaverdad.net)
The articles of the Penal Code now used more frequently to suppress dissent
include:21
1.. Article 144, which defines the crime of desacato, or "disrespect." It
states that anyone who threatens, slanders, defames, insults, harms or in
anyway outrages or offends, verbally or in writing, the dignity or honor of
an authority, public official, or their agents or auxiliaries, in the
exercise of their functions or because of them can be imprisoned for between
three months and one year or fined or both. If the act of disrespect is
directed at the head of state or other senior officials the penalty is a
prison term from one to three years

2.. Articles 208 and 209, which define the crime of asociación ilícita, or
"illicit association." These articles state that anyone belonging to an
unregistered association can be fined or imprisoned for between one and
three months. The promoters or leaders of such an association can be fined
or imprisoned for between three months and a year. Anyone who participates
in illegal meetings or demonstrations can be fined or imprisoned for between
one and three months. The organizers of illegal meetings or demonstrations
can be fined or imprisoned for between three months and a year.

3.. Article 103, which defines the crime of propaganda enemiga, or "enemy
propaganda." It states that anyone who incites against the social order,
international solidarity or the socialist state by means of verbal, written
or any other kind of propaganda, or who makes, distributes or possesses such
propaganda, can be imprisoned from between one to eight years. Anyone who
spreads false news or malicious predictions likely to cause alarm or
discontent among the population, or public disorder, can be imprisoned from
between one and four years. If the mass media are used, the sentence can be
from seven to fifteen years in prison.

4.. Article 207, which defines the crime of asociación para delinquir, or
"associating with others to commit crimes." It states that if three or more
persons join together in a group to commit crimes, they can be imprisoned
for between one and three years, simply for meeting together. If the only
objective of the group is to provoke disorder or interrupt family or public
parties, spectacles or other community events or to commit other anti-social
acts, the penalty is a fine or a prison sentence of between three months and
one year.

5.. Article 115, which defines the crime of difusión de falsas
informaciones contra la paz internacional, or "dissemination of false
information against international peace." It states that anyone who spreads
false news with aim of disturbing international peace or putting in danger
the prestige or credit of the Cuban State or its good relations with another
state can be imprisoned for between one and four years.

6.. Article 143, which defines the crime of resistencia, or "resistance."
On occasion, the crime is referred to as desobediencia, or "disobedience."
It states that anyone who resists an official in the exercise of his duties
can be imprisoned for between three months and a year or fined. If the
official is trying to apprehend a criminal or someone who has escaped from
prison, the penalty is a prison term from two to five years.

7.. Articles 72-90, which define the crime of peligrosidad, or
"dangerousness." These articles come under the heading, "The Dangerous
Status and Security Measures," a section of the Penal Code under which
someone can be sentenced for up to four years in prison on the grounds that
the authorities believe the individual has a "special proclivity" to commit
crimes, even though he or she might not have actually committed a crime.
These articles broadly define "dangerous" people as those who act in a
manner that contradicts "socialist morality" or engage in "anti-social
behavior." Moreover, Article 75 provides for an "official warning" to people
the authorities deem to be in danger of becoming "dangerous," i.e., those
who are not yet "dangerous" but who are regarded as having criminal
tendencies because of their "ties or relations with people who are
potentially dangerous to society, other people, and to the social, economic
and political order of the socialist State."

The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) concludes that because
of "their lack of precision and their subjective nature," the legal
definitions of "dangerousness" and such terms as "socialist legality" and
"standards of socialist coexistence,"

constitute a source of juridical insecurity which creates conditions
permitting the Cuban authorities to take arbitrary action.22

In other words, the Penal Code articles which define "dangerousness"
constitute a catch-all mechanism which gives the government the legal
justification for taking any citizen it wants out of circulation. As Human
Rights Watch/Americas stated in October 1995:

Cubans who engage in "anti-social behavior" or violate "socialist
morality" may be held in preventive detention under the "dangerousness"
provisions of the criminal code for as long as four years, even without
being convicted of a crime.23

According to Pax Christi Netherlands and Amnesty International, there are
clear indications that the crime of "dangerousness" is used as a cover to
imprison people for political reasons on the grounds that they are common
delinquents.24

The Penal Code also defines the crime of salida illegal del país, "illegal
exit from country." Under Penal Code Articles 216 and 217, those caught
trying to leave the country without the permission of the government can be
fined or imprisoned for up to three years if they have not used violence and
up to eight years if force or intimidation is used. In cases where passenger
vessels or airplanes are hijacked, the charge is usually one of piratería,
"piracy." Under Penal Code Article 117, piracy carries a penalty of up to 20
years imprisonment, or a possible sentence of death if there is loss of life
or risk to the lives of others.25

In the past three decades, thousands of Cubans have been imprisoned for
trying to leave the island without permission. In 1994, illegal exit
prisoners were thought to constitute the largest category of political
prisoners in Cuba. In 1990 alone, there were 335 inmates convicted of
illegal exit serving time in a single prison in Havana, the Combinado del
Este.26

Under the 1995 U.S.-Cuba immigration agreement, the Cuban government
promised to "ensure that no action is taken against those migrants returned
to Cuba as a consequence of their attempt to emigrate illegally."27 However,
the Cuban government still has neither eliminated nor amended Penal Code
Articles 216 and 217 to reflect this commitment. Although recently there
appears to be a trend toward lighter penalties - e.g., fines and/or house
arrest - particularly in cases of first-time offenders, Articles 216 and 217
are still used to punish people for trying to leave the country without
permission. That underscores the fact that the threat of punishment
continues to hang over the heads of those who are returned to Cuba following
attempts to leave without authorization. The current status of the U.S.-Cuba
immigration agreement and the condition of Cubans who have been repatriated
to Cuba are discussed in Chapter XVI, Section C, of this report.


See: http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/carib/1997-cuba.html#penal



Article 91: Acts against the Independence or the Territorial Integrity of
the State

ARTICLE 91. The person who, in the interest of a foreign State, commits an
act with the intent to cause damage to the independence of the Cuban State
or the integrity of its territory, shall be punished with 10 to 20 years in
prison or death.



Law 88.
Promulgated in February 1999, the "88 Law" - soon nicknamed the "gagging
law" in dissident circles - weighs like the Sword of Damocles over any
person who "collaborates, by any means whatsoever, with radio or television
programmes, magazines or any other foreign media" or "provides information"
considered likely to serve US policy. The law provides for very heavy
sentences: up to 20 years' imprisonment, confiscation of all personal
belongings and fines up to 100,000 pesos (close to 4,800 dollars, while the
average Cuban salary is 250 pesos or 12 dollars per month). This law, that
no court has taken advantage of as yet, also provides for punishment for
"the promotion, organisation or encouragement of, or the participation in
meetings or demonstrations.

Provisions of Law 88

In February 1999 Cuba's National Assembly passed tough legislation providing
for stiff prison terms for those guilty of supporting United States policy
against Cuba as laid out in the Helms-Burton Law:

Whereas, the Government of the United States has dedicated itself to
promoting, organizing, financing and directing counterrevolutionary and
imperialist elements inside and outside the territory of the Republic of
Cuba. For four decades it has invested significant financial and material
resources to carry out numerous covert activities in order to destroy the
independence and economy of Cuba, using to such end individuals recruited
within the national territory, as has been recognized by the Central
Intelligence Agency since 1961 according to a report released in 1998.(77)

The text of the law further details US legislative measures to finance
counterrevolutionary activities in Cuba:

through the Law of 12 March 1996 known as the Helms-Burton Law, the United
States expanded, intensified and codified its economic war against Cuba and
detailed how such assistance would be given to individuals who would be used
in the national territory to carry out the subversive and imperialist
objectives of the Empire . the Federal Budget Law, passed on 21 October 1998
by the Government of the United States, set a minimum of two million dollars
to support counterrevolutionary activities in Cuba .(78)

In this way, financing subversive activities within Cuba is portrayed, in
addition to the embargo, as part of the US 'economic war' against Cuba. The
introductory text concludes that it is "an inescapable duty to respond to
this aggression against the Cuban people,"(79) and proceeds to detail the
types of behaviour that would be considered as facilitating US policy and
the penalties for them (see text box).

Penalties included in Law 88

Article 4 of the law provides for seven to 15 years' imprisonment for
passing information to the United States government or its agents that could
be used to bolster anti-Cuban measures such as the US embargo or related
destabilising activities within Cuba. This would rise to 20 years if the
information is acquired with the participation of two or more persons; is
passed on in order to receive personal gain; or is acquired surreptitiously
or in a work context. Similarly, the penalty would be aggravated if the
Cuban economy were ultimately to be harmed by the information being passed
or if, as a result, the United States government were to take punitive
measures against Cuban or foreign enterprises.

Article 5 provides for penalties of three to eight years, and/or a fine, for
those who seek out classified information to be used in this way, which
would rise to twelve years in the aggravating circumstances outlined above.

Under article 6 the legislation also sanctions with three to eight years
and/or a fine the introduction into Cuba, ownership, distribution or
reproduction of 'subversive materials' from the US government that would
facilitate US economic aggression or related destabilising activities within
Cuba. The penalties are more severe for those who do so for personal gain or
who cause damage to the Cuban economy.

It proposes in article 7 terms of imprisonment of up to five years for
collaborating with radio and TV stations, printed publications or other
media deemed to be assisting US policy; accredited foreign journalists are
exempt. Again, the penalties are more severe if the individual profits by
the activity.

Also punishable by up to five years' imprisonment are acts which disturb
public order for the benefit of the US economic war on Cuba, according to
article 8; the penalties increase for organisers of such events.

Article 9 outlaws 'any act intended to impede or prejudice the economic
relations of the Cuban state' with penalties of up to 15 years. This can be
extended if violence, blackmail or other illegal means are used; if private
profit is obtained as a result; or if the United States government takes
punitive measures in reprisal. The remaining articles cover incitement of
others to commit any of the above acts; distribution of US funds or
materials for these activities; and collaboration with third states
sympathetic to US aims in Cuba.

Source: http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003

See:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/repressive_laws.htm

How the government uses these laws: (actual cases documented by Human Rights
organizations)
http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_of_disrespect.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_of_illicit_association.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_of_enemy_propaganda.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_of_associating_with_others.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_of_dissemination_of_false.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_of_resistance.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_of_dangerousness.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_under_law_88.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/crime_of_damage_to_independence.htm

>>> Please provide the link that proves that even one Cuban has ever been
>>> denied
>>> medical treatment when facilities were available. (snip)
>>
>> Ask anyone with family in Cuba comrade Dan.
>> But then often the "required resources and facilities" were given over to
>> the "medical tourists", aren't they?
>>
>> " Los médicos cubanos se ven a diario ante la disyuntiva de informarse
>> sobre
>> los medicamentos que están a la venta y cuáles se encuentran en falta,
>> para
>> poder recetar a sus pacientes. A ello hay que agregar el déficit
>> instrumental médico y quirúrgico en policlínicos y hospitales, cosa que
>> no
>> ocurre en los centros donde son atendidos los extranjeros, sin contar la
>> alimentación y avituallamientos necesarios que reciben, en comparación
>> con
>> la de que se ofrece a los nacionales."
>> "Pero el traslado no se pudo hacer hasta las diez de la mañana por la no
>> existencia de una ambulancia especializada. Todos estos vehículos estaban
>> movilizados hacia el aeropuerto de La Habana en espera de enfermos
>> venezolanos que debían arribar para ser atendidos en Cuba. "
>>
>> http://cubanet.org/CNews/y04/ago04/12a9.htm
>>
>
> CubaNet(snip)

Yep.
That award winning news service.

"Pero el traslado no se pudo hacer hasta las diez de la mañana por la no
existencia de una ambulancia especializada. Todos estos vehículos estaban
movilizados hacia el aeropuerto de La Habana en espera de enfermos
venezolanos que debían arribar para ser atendidos en Cuba. "

>> The medical apartheid system is very well known.
>>
>> "Tourists have everything they need," said the pediatrician, who spoke on
>> the condition he would not be identified in any way. "But for Cubans,
>> it's
>> different. Unless you work with tourists or have a relative in Miami
>> sending
>> you money, you will not be able to get what you need if you are sick in
>> Cuba. As a doctor, I find it disgusting."
>
> Thanks to your beloved embargo,(snip)

There is everything in one wing of the hospital for the health tourists and
nothing fro Cuban.
If there was an "embargo" neither section would have them.
In fact the sale of food (over 5 million tons sold - the USA is since 2002
the largest food supllier of Cuba) and medicines is freely allowed now.

>> In 1993, when Havana began the tourism packages, officials sought to
>> convert
>> Cuba's prestigious International Centre for Neurological Restoration,
>> which
>> over the years had gained an international reputation for treating trauma
>> and Parkinson's Disease, into a tourists-only hospital.
>> But the hospital's founder, the internationally respected neurosurgeon
>> Hilda
>> Molina, refused to comply with the government decision.
>> "There is a fundamental discrepancy," she said at the time. "I am not a
>> politician. I am a doctor. Cubans should be treated the same as
>> foreigners.
>> Cubans have less rights in their own country than foreigners who visit
>> here."
>> Original source:
>> http://www.canada.com/search/story.html?id=512e6694-e9c7-4e97-99b4-e27fc98b59b4
>> http://www.futurodecuba.org/Cuba's%20biitter%20health%20pill.%20htm.htm
>>
>
> Nothing here saying that any Cuban was denied medical treatment when
> facilities were available.

Just that all facilities were reserved for foreigners making them "no longer
available" for Cubans.
The apartheid is in the fact that trhese facilities are not available to
Cubans.

"Cuba's prestigious International Centre for Neurological Restoration, which
over the years had gained an international reputation for treating trauma
and Parkinson's Disease, into a tourists-only hospital."

>> It is even used as a means of pressure against those that disagree:
>> "State security agents also detained Luis Alberto Ferrándiz Alfaro and
>> his
>> wife, Xiomara Aliat Collado, in Versalles. Aliat Collado said that during
>> her forty-five-day detention in Versailles, state security agents
>> tormented
>> her psychologically,telling her that her then five-year-old son-who
>> suffers
>> from asthma and had been left alone with his fourteen-year-old sister
>> following their parents' arrest-was sick and that he would not receive
>> medical treatment and might die if she did not talk"
>> http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-06.htm
>>
>
> The unsubstantiated claims (snip)

Nope.
Reported facts.

PL


.

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