Re: China's plan for Tibetan cultural genocide..

On Oct 30, 7:10 am, Free Tibet Now <freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:42:10 -0700 (PDT), ltlee1 <ltl...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Oct 17, 10:54 am, Free Tibet Now <freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:50:34 -0700 (PDT), ltlee1 <ltl...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Oct 17, 3:39 am, Free Tibet Now <freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:42:50 -0700 (PDT), ltlee1 <ltl...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Oct 16, 8:59 pm, Free Tibet Now <freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:28:02 -0700 (PDT), ltlee1 <ltl...@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Oct 16, 1:50 am, Free Tibet Now <freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:14:33 -0700 (PDT), ltlee1 <ltl...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Oct 14, 5:15 am, Free Tibet Now <freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:29:43 -0700 (PDT), ltlee1 <ltl...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Oct 12, 11:01 pm, Free Tibet Now <freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 09:51:40 -0700 (PDT), ltlee1 <ltl....@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Oct 12, 12:21 pm, Free Tibet Now <freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 06:54:42 -0700 (PDT), ltlee1 <ltl...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Oct 12, 9:13 am, Free Tibet Now <freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:02:19 -0700 (PDT), rst0wxyz

<rst0w...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Oct 11, 7:27 pm, James <j0069b...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
http://www.china.org.cn/china/local/2008-10/11/content_16597765.htm

470,000 Tibetan herders to move

You guys can never be satisfied.
China build houses for them to live,
And you call this "Tibetan cultural genocide"!!!

Have you seen the houses? Have you seen where they are? They're slums
in the middle of nowhere - no services, no shops, nothing. Just a
clump of buildings with a wall around it - some without a wall. Why
don't you go and live there?

Can you answer your onw questions?

Here is news release from the beginning post:

"The government of southwest China's Sichuan Province plans to help
470,000 Tibetan herds people in the region to settle down in permanent
brick houses in the next four years.

The provincial government will input 5 billion yuan (US$735 million)
into the project to build new houses and villages as well as primary
schools, clinics, offices and other public service infrastructure in
the villages.

Local authorities will also invite industrial businesses to design and
manufacture special tents and other living products tailored to the
needs of high and cold areas for the herds people, in a bid to provide
a "modern life" in their nomadic life, according to a provincial
government meeting held on Friday.

Statistics show that among the total 533,000 herds people in Sichuan,
219,000 still have no fixed residences and 254,000 are living in
shanty houses.

Similar housing projects have also been carried out in the neighboring
Tibet Autonomous Region and northwestern provinces of Qinghai and
Gansu, in a hope to improve the living conditions and public services
for the nomadic Tibetan communities.

(Xinhua News Agency October 11, 2008)"

If you think the government of southwest China's Sichuan Province's
plan is not to your liking, please point up what is wrong with the
plan and/or what else should be done.

I've seen what they have done to the nomads in Amdo and they started
with the same lies of schools, clinics, etc

Who are the they? What lies?
Please tell what do you mean by you have seen.

Try reading the post.

a. Were you a third party eyewitnessing someone telling some Tibetans
something?
If so, when and where and about what?

b. Or were you told about "someone was telling some Tibetans
something"? If so please specify.

c. I visited them in their own slums. I saw with my own eyes. Heard
with my own ears.

Alright, let us say some Tibetans, those that you saw with your own
eyes were linving in slums. The question is then should anyone
generalized from some Tibetans to all Tibetans?

What did you actually hear? Care to give some examples?

Reread the post. I gave you examples - must sell their animals. Get
money. Only half of what promised.
In case you don't understand my question. Let me try again.
"Of half of what promised/"  Who was promising whom? Were you there
while those promise were made?

The CCP promised 5,000 Yuan for each nomad family to sell their
animals (the nomads got to keep the money from said sale) and move
into concrete block house. Additionally they were to receive a TV and
furniture.

Sorry, the CCP is not a specific answer. If you were hearing some one
making some kind of promise, who was this person, and to whom, when
and where? If you were just hearing things, may be you should make it
clear too. No?

I was inside their 'houses', saw the furniture etc. I'm sorry, I
didn't ask which specific person the nomads were dealing with when
they were evicted from their land. Would it make any difference? If it
was a 'Mr Lee' what difference would it make?

The difference is that you really don't know much. For instance, you
don't know who had promised whom about what.  You don't know what had
transpired between promise made and promise delivered. An analogous
situation: Any one travels through American citiess will frequently
see person stand at street corners holding a sign. The sign read
something like, "Veteran need money for food." "Veteran will work for
food." What can be sure is that the U.S. government did not promise
him a life of pan-handling. However,  his present situation would tell
us nothing on what was promised to him. His present situation also
would tell us nothing on what had happeded in between.

You walk into a house that belongs to the family of your friend. You
notice the place fairly bare of furniture. The family is cooking on a
spirit stove. Your friend tells you his family were nomads and
traveled with their extended family across the high plains of Amdo. He
says they now have no animals and are not allowed to continue their
nomadic way of life. You ask why. He says the government told his
family they must stop being nomads because.. insert any number of
reasons here..(like damaging the environment; polluting the rivers;
stressing the wildlife; etc etc). He says they were offered a sum of
money; he says they only got half. He shows you the furniture and TV
that isn't working/falling apart. You look closely at the items and
notice the flimsy, shoddy condition. The TV looks like a toy.

You look out the window and see a line of concrete boxes, oddly out of
place on the high plain.The family tells you how they must rely on
others to go to town for food. No longer do they have meat, skins and
dung from their own animals. The father says being a nomad is all he
knows. He can tell you about the weather, the country, where is safe
to camp, what signs to look for, etc etc. He has despair written all
over his face. He says they were told their lives would be better,
modern, happier if they stopped the nomadic life.

You look at the family and think.... should I get the name of the
official who promised them this? Should I go to the government in
Chengdu and find out what's going on? You can see what's going on. You
don't need the name of any official because nothing will be done. Why?
Because the official/s are out every day taking other nomads off their
land. Why? Because the officials have been told to do it.

Don't know what you want or do want to do. It is your choice, not
mine. But if you want to accuse someone or some organization or some
country of serious wrong doing, you need more information. As is, you
don't have any fact to  eliminate many of possible explanations such
as the one I had sugeested in my last post. In short,  serious
accusation needs serious evidence. Don't behave like a 5 years old
accusing his 3 years old sister of stealing his candy simply because
he thought so.

Mate, this is just one small event in a litany of events taking place
in Tibet right now. What they all add up to is a systematic and
carefully measured program to ...

What other events? You are afford ample opportunity to present your
best case based on what you saw and what you heard. I did not dismiss
any of them. Rather,  I assumed them to be true. Yet they added up to
nothing conclusive. You simply don't have information to preculude
likely but non-malevolent explanations.

You sure do talk tripe. "preclude likely but non-malevent
explainations."  You'd be a riot at dinner parties.

If you want to continure your China bashing masquraded as activitism,
go ahead. You will be fine as long you don't follow the example of the
poor preacher who went to Beijing to vendalize his hotel room.

I thought the dude was in Singapore. Oh, well, pretty close.  Funny
how you interpret activism as China bashing. Quite a skill.

Activism begins with a deep understanding of the people and the
society.
The desire to change things to your liking is not activitism. Judging
from
the above posts, you are too eager to bash, too lazy to investigate.
You
visited a Tibetan family and then jumped to the ridiculous conclusion
without trying to preclude other explanations. This is the hallmark
of
basher.


But if you are interested in activitism, why not try something closer to
home? Are your city and your country really perfect?

Way ahead of you sunny boy.

Are you? How so?

For the benefit of your education, I am
involved close to home and, no, my country isn't perfect, but I can
stand up and criticze it any time I like. Unlike in China or outside
China, it seems.

The Chinese people criticize China all the time.
It is silly for you or anyone to think that the CCP and the
government
apparatus it dominates can govern China without a lot of feedbacks,
both
positive and negative, from the people. Such silliness is another
hallmark
of a basher.




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Date: Thu Oct 30 12:10:25 2008 GMT
From: freetibet...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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