Re: Learning English: (Was) Sex in Shanghai

PaPaPeng,

You have replied to me in such a way that you diverted my points into
the ones that you would like to substantiate.
My point has been that the Chinese schools should expect, from a flux
of foreign teachers going in, a basket of trash-typed individuals,
while at the same time you seem to argue that such types of individuals
and what they are said to have done in disgrace do not exist.

=========================================

PaPaPeng wrote:
On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:36:13 GMT, David Moss
<q0320811@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

DM: Getting back to the thread title, you would not have to worry
about students having physical relationships with the staff either ;-)

PPP: Only in some people's wet dreams.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<fyfpoon@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1157387518.082361.181910@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Lately a 'foriegn teacher' in Shanghai of China, who sounds like
someone from the unemployment line in UK, has written in vivid details
about his sexual encounters with his students in a blog and what he
wrote has caused much fury amongst many local readers.

PPP: The feedback as reported in the Peoples daily is that a
nationwide hunt by computer savvy Chinese youths did not turn up such
a sexually charged foreign character. The conclusion is that there is
no such person. Now in China it is almost impossible to go anywhere
without seeing another face and do anything out of the ordinary
without someone noticing. There is no where to hide. Ask any China
dissident. This dismissal that the blogger is a fraudulent personality
is therefore believable.

However, I think the Chinese schools should get used to events like
this as events like this will always be expected.

PPP: Not a chance. If the blogger wants hookers there are lots of
them and they don't cost much. No one cares. But to claim all those
sexual conquests with students is a stretch. Chinese girls with
education don't go screwing around. They know well they'll be ruined
for life. No reputation, no job, no hubby and socially ostracized in
polite society. Our blogger may get to seduce one. If he found out
he will be instantly kicked out of the country or something worse than
death. Whether found out or not there won't be a second seduction
because it will be impossible to move past the first one without being
outed.

There is currently a huge demand for foreign teachers of English in
China. Unfortunately, given the level of disposable income in China at
this point, most Chinese schools are unable to hire qualified or
trained teachers. As a result, many trash-typed of individuals from
foreign countries who are unable to obtain employment at home are
flocking to China to try their luck. Thus rotten qualify of foreign
teachers, both professionally and morally, should not come as a
surprise.

PPP: Look at the real world. Many native English speakers who go to
teach in China are young single folks living alone in a strange
country. There are thousands of them to make a valid statistical
sample. At that age in life it is very easy to feel physically and
emotionally attracted to your students who are just blooming into
adulthood. Now ask how many have carried this out to its logical
conclusion of actually getting engaged or married once their teaching
contract is over? How many elopements. How many illegitimate births
of mixed parentage are there? Such liaisons are almost unheard of.
I prefer to believe in real data than the fantasies of a single
blogger.

The economics law once again applies here: you get what you pay for.
Low prices for products are usually associated with low quality
products.
People in China just have to accept that. The Chinese schools should
not expect to hire quality teachers at peanut prices.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Simple as that!

PPP: So what is the problem? When you are poor you make do with what
you have. A third rate foreigner is still one over nothing at all.
It is impossible not to learn something from another human being even
if it is only to figure out that this kweilo (foreigner) is an
incompetent. The lesson here is that the white guy is no smarter than
a Chinaman and one can likely compete successfully in his foreign
world. And if this foreigner can speak English and have social habits
not found in China that exposure has value. It is better to have a
broad based egalitarian if lower grade program than to go for elitist
cases where only a few and rich institutions can provide well
qualified teachers.

If you look at the educational ladder for Chinese kids less than half
make it past junior high. Those who do can be considered to be quite
capable of excelling in any educational system. That is they are
quite capable of self study and self improvement. A third rate
teacher won't hold them back by much. Just ask any educator from an
American inner city school. The received wisdom here is how come
Oriental students, whose parents are poor, illiterate, cannot speak
English and living in an alien society they can barely interact with,
can excel academically when they receive exactly the same inputs as
their urban ghetto peers. In that one generation they achieve the
American Dream of middle class comfort whilst their classmates had
dropped out of school and repeat their cycle of poverty, lack of
employable skills and the drug culture.

In China the best will still receive the best. There will be more
than enough of top graduates in every field. For the great unwashed
masses I am more than gratified that they now have something that they
would not have just ten years ago. On foreign teachers they may get
third rate people. But as long as they are not pedophiles, they are
more than welcome. In giving some part of themselves to China they
will unavoidably absorb much of China that will improve him or her.
Everybody still wins.

===============================================
On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:36:13 GMT, David Moss
<q0320811@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

DM: What Chinese students need is not highly qualified teachers fluent
in English, but conversational partners who are fluent in English and
patient enough to talk with people who struggle with English.

PPP: I have been saying the same things on this subject. There is no
substitute of interacting with a real live person. What is happening
in China with barely qualified (pedagogue ) but native English
speakers is a very successful experiment. Singapore has plans to
follow China's example.

DM: Here in Australia we are plagued by telephone sales calls
originating in India. The people making these calls are in huge call
centres, packed in like battery chickens and making thousands of calls
before making a sale. They are paid very poorly by Australian
standards.

DM: Rather than hiring an Oxford Professor to teach basic
conversational English in a Chinese school, it would be far more cost
effective to use local teachers to deliver the academic portion of the
curriculum and have students telephone an Indian call centre to
practice conversation.

Certainly the Indian call centre operators have an Indian accent to
their voices. Everyone has some regional accent unless they are
forcing themselves to conform to a particular sound, like a singer or
actor. The difference this would make to people who will speak English
with a strong Chinese accent is insignificant. Those few who go on to
diplomatic service or media jobs where a standard accent is required
will have to spend a lot of time and effort perfecting their accent
regardless of who teaches them in primary or high school.

PPP: Surely you jest. Indians who speak English well can find well
paid employment. The ones who work in call centers speak
Indo-English, a dialect so well captured by the late Peter Sellars or
by Apu in the TV Simpsons. There is a 24 hour all English CCTV
channel. The announcers speak with a Beijing accent that is quite
distinctive manner that has its roots in putonghua. I find that
dialect very attractive and melodious. Chinese students should watch
this channel to improve their English. It also broadcasts excellent
programs on history, culture, science and technology, and of course
current news..

DM: India is by no means the only place where fluent English speakers
work cheaply in call centres. The Philippines is another that springs
to mind.

PPP: The Philippines, like Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand speak a
really horrible version of English known as Singlish. Don't even go
there.


DM: Chinese educationalists would be well advised to consider using
international call centres for conversational practice rather than
trying to hire a top notch professional English teachers to do the
same thing. You can hire a personal college educated English speaker
in India for each member of a 30 student class at the same cost as
hiring a single Band 11 teacher from Australia.

PPP: An impractical proposition as there is a matter of long distance
call charges. Furthermore call centers operate on the basis of making
a sale. It isn't too difficult for a call center employee to figure
out that he/she is being used. There is always the option of hanging
up.

.

Relevant Pages

  • We need Language Exchange Partners, we can teach you Chinese (Mandarin)
    ... We can teach you Chinese (Mandarin) in exchange. ... I want to learn: English ... Thomas Xu, 27 years old, China ...
    (soc.culture.taiwan)
  • Re: Teaching and Learning English in Hong Kong
    ... > All the teachers in my school teach exclusively in English. ... good for the local teachers. ... Chinese all the time and asked the foreign teachers to use only ... The students, not accustomed to hearing ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Learning English: (Was) Sex in Shanghai
    ... about students having physical relationships with the staff either;-) ... Now in China it is almost impossible to go anywhere ... trained teachers. ... And if this foreigner can speak English and have social habits ...
    (soc.culture.china)
  • Re: Sex in Shanghai
    ... about students having physical relationships with the staff either;-) ... Now in China it is almost impossible to go anywhere ... trained teachers. ... And if this foreigner can speak English and have social habits ...
    (soc.culture.china)
  • Re: Democracy march takes over Hong Kong streets
    ... >>> I believe on the mainland around 80% of folks can handle mandarin. ... > Similarly, English is also taught in all schools, but to a lesser degree. ... I asked the girl, who showed us the various Chinese tea, why she ... > in China is there for the taking, but the centuries-old tradition of having ...
    (soc.culture.china)
Loading