Re: Is Confucianism on the rise in China?

really confucius is bad, but something is much worse.
as this communist dog picks out :

Yuan dynsaty from monoglia, refuse confucius,
as PRC from Russia, refuse confucious so long,
the cruelty is the same
as in Qing dynasty, foreigner prescribed a lot of rules against chinese.

why not adapt more efficient ways ???
this communist dog is dreaming to his saying to whom !!!
this communist dog asks them to be killed to adapt ....
leaving the killers communists untouched !!!!
that is why a communist dog !!!

this communist dog yells to learn , not to live,
but too blind to see, the communists spokesman are declaring to live in it.
how miserable this communist dog !!!

this communist dog yells too loud to learn from this from that,
what had this communist dog learned ?????
completely blank here !!!!!1

this communist dog yell to have better ways to deal,
but too obvious, this communist dog's better way is likely to be the us$404/365-a-year, much worse than the 2500 years ago.



rst0wxyz@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
shazi wrote:

"rst0wxyz@xxxxxxxxx" <rst0wxyz@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


ltlee1 wrote:

Being a confucian is about how to live one life
such as how to see human relationship, religion
and etc. In this sense, Chinese is always confucius.

indeed.


Yes, and I say again, Confucius teaching tie China and the Chinese
people to the past. Leave Confucius teaching to the history book and
study it as history. It was too bad that Qin ShiHuang Di didn't
succeed in burning all his books. Otherwise China might have more
better and successful history.


And that is why China has been at the bottom of the
pile for so long, Confucius teaching tie China and
the Chinese people to the past. Forget about Confucius.

bottom of the pile? in what respect?


Haven't you learned anything about China's history throughout your
life? If you have to ask these questions, you have been sitting on the
highs of Confucius teaching and don't see anything bad. From the days
of the Yuan Dynasty, the Mongols didn't even trust the Chinese, and
killed half of the Chinese population. The country was controlled by
Mongols and foreigners, people like Marco Polo. In a short period of
time, the Ming Dynasty gained some respect during the time of Zhang
He's time. Ever since then, it's been nothing but downhill. There was
nothing to be proud of when a foreign country put up signs in China
itself that said "no dog or Chinese allowed". You don't think it's a
disgrace for a country put up exclusion laws restricting the Chinese
from entering a country? China itself was almost partitioned into
different pieces by foreign countries. If you don't see anything bad
about Confucius teaching, you haven't read any Chinese history since
the 1700's. The Chinese people were treated like animals throughout
the world. The Manchu made a mockery of the Chinese people by forcing
all Chinese to shave the forehead and wore a queue. It's a disgrace
for me even to watch Chinese movies showing that hair style today. If
you don't think these are not the bottom of the pile, you have no pride
in yourself.


His teaching is 2,500 years old. Have we learned
nothing more the past 2,500 years?

we have developed more efficient means
to kill people.


Killing had been done throughout history, the west as well as east.
During the warring states time, whole army, the whole state, including
women and children were killed. Since we have more efficient ways of
killing people, why not adapt more efficient ways to live than 2,500
year-old ideas?


Leave Confucius in the history book, study it as
history and nothing more. We have better ideas,
better ways of doing things.

to learn from history is to not repeat the
errors, and to make use of the successes.


Yes, that is why I said to leave Confucius to history and study it as
history, but not to live in history.


there is much positive from confucianism.
there are many things in confucianism that
are dated.


Any Confucius teaching are dated. They are 2,500 years old. Learn
from it, improve from it, but don't live it.


same with sunzi's bingfa (art of war).
2500 years ago, he outlined general strategies
to win war, including the idea that the
best strategy is to not fight at all, to
attack strategies. all true today.


Learn from it and improve upon it. Learn from the experience of the
Vietnam war. Learn from the Insurgents in Iraq. They adapt from the
present situation to fight the present war.


he
also had a lot of material that in our
modern technology of killing, is irrelevant.


No, everything is relevant. The idea is to learn from the past, and
improve it, make it better. Use better ideas, not to live in the past.
Every generation produce something better. Don't go back 2,500 years
to learn from Confucius.


the idea is to learn from the things that
relevant.

kongzi taught integrity, loyalty, and
forgiveness.


There have been thousands of people made these the rules to live on,
not only Confucius.


these things have not been
made obsolete, as of yet. and these were
the core of his 'single thread'.

on the other hand, he also was bound within
the mores of his society of the time:


And this is the primary reason why I have so much objection to
Confucius teaching, tie China and the Chinese people to the past.


a lesser view of women, the notion of
a mandate from heaven that legitimizes
the ruler's will.


Yes, we have modern views on these subjects.


unfortunately over time, confucianism
became an excuse for locking in the past.


Yes, my primary objection.


'zhong'/loyalty became the lock-in for
demanding obedience.


Another objection, demand obedience. We have better ways of doing it.


mengzi's social
contract interpetation of kongzi, that
the ruler has the obligation to support
the people and the people have the obligation
to change the ruler if otherwise, was
conveniently forgotten. greed and self-
interest overcame the principles of the
humble and simple righteous leader.


We have better ways to deal beyond the above. These were the views of
the past.


ltlee wrote:

In addition, confucianism has been
mainstream in China for so long, a lot
of confucisan percepts have been diffused
to the lowest level. For example, "Dao"
and "Li", the Chinese translation of "reason"
are big words philosophically speaking.

But 6 years olds also utter them. If one
pays attention to a six years old's "dao li",
may be he can contruct some philosophical meaning.

true. confucianism and its terminology became
the identifying characteristic, much like
christianity in the west. taken for granted,
it is like the water for the fish, so the
nature of confucianism is never really examined.


As Menzi had said,"Dao is not
far from people; far from people is not dao." No?

a pleasure to talk with you.

-shazi
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