Re: China beat Columbus to it, perhaps

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:09:52 +0100, "J.Venning" <Venning@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Possible, but improbable. Had there been such a "map", why has it only
>been mentioned now? Had Zheng He, a.k.a. eunuch San Bao Tai Jien,
>"discovered" America, why wasn't he hailed as having done so in China
>throughout the century? I smell a bit of Erich von Danikenism here.
>J.


Two books you will enjoy reading.

1. Joseph Needham's is more important for his work is carefully
researched, original Chinese sources from antiquity cited, and
authoritative arguments made. Needham is seldom quoted except most
superficially because I think his proof that many of the inventions
attributed to westerners before and after the Dark Ages had been
invented by Chinese a thousand years earlier. This wouldn't have gone
across well with western readers and standard western history. I
myself had heard of Needham years ago but did not read an abridged
volume of his work (by a science popularizer) until recently. In
particular I was very interested in why the junk is superior to
western sailing ships and could Zheng He's ship, some five times
larger than any western ship, been built and sailed. It could and
Needham's chapter on naval architecture, navigation and other things
naval explained exactly how. Much that was achieved by Zeng He was
forgotten after his death until modern times. Until the recent
interest in his exploits many, including Chinese, knew little if
anything of him. And while he is the most herioc the Chinese
shipbuilding technology and maritime techniques preceeded him by
several centuries.

http://www.iias.nl/iiasn/iiasn5/eastasia/needham.html
In Memoriam: Dr Joseph Needham, 1900-1995
On March 24 1995, one of the most outstanding representatives of
post-war European scholarship, Dr Joseph Needham, passed away at the
remarkable age of ninety-four. His loss will be felt in very wide
circles, reaching far beyond the professional domains of sinology, and
the history of Chinese science and technology, for there are few works
with an impact comparable to his monumental Science and Civilisation
in China (Cambridge 1954, seventeen large volumes published, and still
being continued) and the many minor studies that were produced as a
spin-off of that large project, of which he was both the founding
father and driving force. The importance of Joseph Needham's oeuvre
and in particular of SCC lies not only in its size and
comprehensiveness, but also, and above all, in its innovative and
stimulating power. In that respect SCC has rightly been compared with
other pioneering works of synthesis like Frazer's The Golden Bough and
Toynbee's Study of History. (more)


2. Why Geography Matters : Three Challenges Facing America: Climate
Change, the Rise of China, and Global Terrorism. Harm de Blij

The part that caught my attention was how Blij corelated climate
changes with the rise and fall of civilizations. Blij gave the best
reason among many hypotheses why, after achieving so much, Zheng He's
work was abandoned suddenly by the Ming Emperor. Shortly after ZH's
death in 1433 the Little Ice Age that had struck Europe earlier
finally came to China. There were unusual droughts and floods in
various parts of the country. Famine, natural disasters. There was
no more money for maritime pursuits and by the Emperor's decree all
maritime ventures were banned and their records expunged. Thus very
few official records exist therafter. The Chinese world map may be an
authentic copy of the earlier maps. This is something that can be
tested by modern lab techniques, the date of this copy anyway. Since
this copyist made clear his work was based on an earlier source don't
hold your breath that someday an authentic copy of the earlier map may
turn up.

Chinese lore concerning dates and named personalities tend to turn up
evidence of their real existence. For example the Xia Dynasty ca.
2000-1500 B.C. was thought to be mythical until archaelogical digs
(1980s) turned up incontrovertible evidence of its existence. Then
the famous Art of War by Sun Tzu as also thought to be a much later
compilation of various authors. That is until in the 1970s copies of
Sun Tzu's work (and Sun Wu's later contribution) written some 200
years after the traditional date turned up in two widely separated
archaelogical digs. This established once and for all the attributions
made as correct and that the text that survived down to moder times, a
span of more than 2000 years, was practically identical with the
original.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: china and the us
    ... Zheng was born in 1371 of the Hui ethnic group and the Muslim faith. ... princess of China, Princess Hang Li Po, was sent by the ... The Kangnido map predates Zheng's voyages and suggests that he ... Early 17th century Chinese woodblock print, ...
    (soc.culture.filipino)
  • Re: The Chinese Seem To Have Their Own "Vinland Map"
    ... > On the "Overall Map of the Geography of All Under Heaven" and Zheng ... > advised that a recently-discovered ancient Chinese map could prove ...
    (sci.military.naval)
  • Re: 1418 Chinese map of the world?
    ... The following comment on the Liu/Menzies map appeared in the Xin-jing bao ... of the Chinese Geography Research Institute of Fu-dan University, ... suggested that Zheng He?s fleets ever reached the American mainland, ... Economist published an ancient Chinese map which it was claimed could ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: "We hope others see China as a great nation, but we wont use forgeries to demonstrate it. We wan
    ... The following comment on the Liu/Menzies map appeared in the Xin-jing ... of the Chinese Geography Research Institute of Fu-dan ... ever suggested that Zheng He's fleets ever reached the American ...
    (soc.culture.china)
  • Re: Map bolsters America-discovery claim
    ... The following comment on the Liu/Menzies map appeared in the Xin-jing ... of the Chinese Geography Research Institute of Fu-dan ... ever suggested that Zheng He's fleets ever reached the American ...
    (soc.culture.china)