Thailand's new PM Samak Sundaravej: I do the cooking at 7 years old. That's why I cook from that time on, and I think it's right. And I think cooking is an art, and I have done this until now
- From: Chim <ChimS1@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:30:35 -0800 (PST)
updated 51 minutes ago
Interview with Samak Sundaravej
BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- Thailand's new Prime Minister Samak
Sundaravej is the first to be democratically elected since the
nation's bloodless coup in 2006. A veteran politician and former
governor of Bangkok, Samak is accused of being a nominee of friend and
former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. As he prepares to take
office, he joins Talk Asia's Dan Rivers to discuss his allegiance to
his ousted predecessor, corruption, and his alleged role in the
Thammasat massacre of 1976.
BLOCK A
Taking power at a special ceremony, Thailand's new prime minister
receives an endorsement from the King. He gives thanks to the monarch,
then issues a firm message to critics: "I want to tell those who have
held me in contempt, saying in writing and in vilifying speech that I
am inept and I don't know anything, to give me time to do this job."
His election as prime minister comes at a pivotal time for democracy
in Thailand. In 2006, the military launched a bloodless coup against
the government of billionaire Thaksin Shinawatra. The junta accused
Thaksin of corruption, and dissolved Thailand's parliament. Samak, a
Thaksin loyalist, lost his senate seat. The outspoken veteran
politician continued a second career as a celebrity chef. But Samak
soon returned to politics. His People's Power Party made a strong
showing in December's elections. It was formed after Thaksin's own
Thai Rak Thai party was banned, but it shares many of the same
policies and people. Samak has vowed to turn the clock back to before
the last coup. We meet at his residence in Bangkok.
DR: Prime Minister Kun Samak, thank you very much for talking to Talk
Asia. You came to power really on the back, many would say, of Thaksin
Shinawatra, the exiled former prime minister, who was exiled in the
coup a year and a half ago. You made no... You haven't really hidden
your allegiance to him. Explain now how you intend to go forward. Will
Thaksin play a role in your government?
SS: He ran the country for five years very successfully, and then
there is a coup. It's ok. They say, a coup is a coup. And then they
want to destroy Thaksin, it's ok, it's up to them. But he says that
the party is killed. He just asked me, is it possible if you set up a
party and bring the leftover MPs to enroll in the party? And then...
DR: So Thaksin asked you to set up your People's Power Party?
Don't Miss
Talk Asia: Thaksin Shinawatra
SS: He said, is it possible or not? I say I can do because I lost my
opportunity too. I ran as a senate, five months, so the coup d'etat
group, they just kicked me out.
DR: What kind of role will Thaksin play now that you are in power?
SS: Oh, he's the owner of the former party. And then he might get some
support by giving ideas to this or that. Five years such a success, so
why not if he gives some advice?
DR: So you will take advice from Thaksin?
SS: Not I myself, but the one who do the, especially on the economic
group, so they might consult, so I think there's nothing wrong with
this.
DR: Because people say you're merely a puppet, some people have said,
of Thaksin.
SS: You may say, anybody is a puppet of anybody.
DR: So you deny that you're a puppet?
SS: No, I am myself. I'm the leader of the party. I run this country,
it's me, I have my own thinking.
DR: Not Thaksin?
SS: Not Thaksin.
DR: Let's talk about the cabinet lineup. One of the key posts in the
cabinet is defense minister. Obviously with the history of so many
coups in Thailand, whoever has the defense minister portfolio
effectively controls the army. There's been speculation you will have
the defense minister post as well as being prime minister. Is that
going to be the case?
SS: Yeah, well, I intend to do that because in the olden days, there's
an argument always between the military and the government. And the
military serves the monarch, we serve the monarch. An argument that
happen will not, the King will not feel quite so good if any argument
always occur. So we need a neutral by this time. So now we have a
good, a good commander-in-chief of the army.
DR: How can you guarantee there's going to be no more coups in
Thailand?
SS: I cannot guarantee. Last time, when they staged a coup, there's no
reason. Rebel without a cause.
DR: Well, the reason they gave was that Thaksin was hugely corrupt.
SS: Sixteen months, it doesn't prove. Not a single case. They set up a
committee and see to it, and until now, just two cases go to the
prosecutor, not to the court yet.
DR: Central to the charges against Thaksin, his tax-free sale of a
controlling stake in telecommunications giant Shin Corporation to a
Singaporean company. Thaksin changed financial rules just days before
the sale, allowing foreign entities to own up to 49 percent in
telecoms firms, from 25 percent previously. Critics accused him of
forgoing national interests to reap personal benefits. His wife
Pojamarn Shinawatra also faces a series of graft charges and is
accused of concealing millions of dollars in stock market shares. She
returned to Thailand earlier this month to appear at court for the
first charge. At the heart of the case is this plot of land -- it may
look like a wildlife sanctuary, but this is in fact prime real estate
on the edge of Bangkok. Pojamarn Shinawatra bought this from a
government institution in 2003, while her husband was prime minister.
Her critics say she got a huge discount, paying only one third of the
initial evaluation. If convicted, the Shinawatras could face more than
10 years in prison. They both deny the charges.
DR: Do you think he's guilty?
SS: Oh, anyone can do something guilty if anyone can prove, but for
me, not a friend, not the one who know each other...
DR: You don't think he's guilty?
SS: I don't think that anyone may do something wrong, that doesn't
think that that is wrong. Such is the first case, he let his wife to
buy in the bidding, so they say this is wrong, so this case must go to
the court. This is a good example. So ask Thaksin, or ask his wife,
they never think that they committed anything wrong.
DR: Well, I'm asking you. Do you think Thaksin was corrupt?
SS: Oh. For me, why must he? But if he do something and the business
that he has done for his friend, for his colleague, and it create some
better income than others. Put it this way, corrupt or not corrupt,
huh, in the olden days, when anyone invests in this country, you can
hold the share only 25 percent, for the rest must be nominee, or any
kind of thing. But he decide to change from 25 to 49 percent. Now when
he made a change of this from 25 to 49 and then he can sell his share,
it costs 73 billion, and then pay no tax because by law pay no tax.
This is corrupt or not?
DR: Well, I'm asking you. Do you think he's corrupt?
SS: Somebody say it's corrupt, but for me I say no, this is by law.
This is, he might take this opportunity. It must be his wisdom that he
can do the trade.
DR: But should prime ministers be allowed to make money? Shouldn't
they be concentrating on the job of prime minister?
SS: For me, for me, I have nothing kind of that. But for him, it's his
business. He do the business and he want to get rid of the share that
he hold. To be or not be right or wrong is up to him.
DR: Well is it right or wrong?
SS: I think it's right, because it draw intention for the investor to
come, that you can have 49 percent, you have a proxy only 2, so you
can run the company.
DR: Will Thaksin come back? And if so, when?
SS: It's up to him, up to the case. His wife just mentioned to the
court that he will come in May. So the court do agree. He will come or
not, it's up to him. But one thing I must say is that he must come
back to face the charge. It's not dangerous.
DR: How much damage was done do you think to Thailand by the coup?
SS: Oh, I cannot. It doesn't come by figures. It comes by the feeling
of the people. The damage that come... I'm not an expert in economy,
but they say that just from the grassroots to the top, they also have
problems. Restaurants say the business 100 percent is going down to 50
percent. They're buying and selling everything.
DR: If the country was so damaged by the coup, what will you do to
those who led the coup? Should they not be punished?
SS: No, no, no.
DR: Why not?
SS: Do believe me. That we call a revenge, a reprisal, a retortion. We
have no need to do that. They must feel ashamed by themselves, that is
much enough.
BLOCK B
DR: October 1976, this grainy footage shows one of Thailand's darkest
episodes -- the Thammasat massacre. Soldiers killed dozens of left-
wing students during a frenzy of anti-communist fervor, and Samak was
at the scene. He was Deputy Interior Minister -- his enemies accused
him of goading the lynch-mobs. The massacre triggered a military coup
and remains an emotionally-charged subject in Thailand.
DR: Some people are very critical of your past in Thailand, some
people have even said you've got blood on your hands. What would you
say to that?
SS: Oh, I deny the whole thing. I have no concern on that business.
And I have nothing to do, to deal with that at all. I'm an outsider by
that time. And then the Governor of Bangkok, he is the Secretary
General of the Democratic Party and the Deputy. So, the chief of the
group asked him to see, so I go along with him. That evening, he talk
to the chief of the group, I talk to the military. The guy asked me,
what do you think Kun Samak, we close all the newspaper? I said, it's
impossible. Next morning who will know who is the one who is a reform
group, who are they. So next morning, they make the first committee,
five. One military, four civilians just to open, to back to normal for
all the newspaper. That was what I do.
DR: Would you like to take the opportunity now to condemn what
happened in 1976?
SS: Actually it's a movement of some students. They don't like the
government.
DR: But dozens of people, maybe hundreds of people died.
SS: No, just only one died. There are 3,000 students in the Thammasat
University.
DR: The official death toll was 46, and many people say it was much
higher than that.
SS: No. For me, no deaths, one unlucky guy being beaten and being
burned in Sanam Luang. Only one guy by that day.
DR: So there was no massacre?
SS: No not at all, but taking pictures, 3,000 students, boys and girls
lined up, they say that is the death toll. 3,000.
DR: People say that your very right-wing rhetoric inflamed the
situation.
SS: What's wrong to be the right-wing if it is? The right-wing is with
the King. The left-wing is communist.
DR: So do you think Thailand was in danger of falling to communism in
1976?
SS: Well, a guy called Lomax, he write a book, the book is called,
"Thailand: The War that is, the War that will be." And he says that
this is a domino theory. He says that there will be 10 dominoes around
this area. So if Cambodia will be, Vietnam will be, Laos will be, and
Thailand will be the number four domino. And from Thailand, it will be
Burma, it will be Malaysia, Singapore. Small islands like Singapore.
So many islands like Indonesia and later, big islands like Australia
and even two tiny islands down under. Ten countries will be communist.
We are domino number four.
DR: Do you think it's excusable to kill innocent students in the name
of defending the country from communism?
SS: Oh, who kill the students? If the fighting between the military,
the military is to defend for the country. Somebody tried to bring
communism into our country, it's up to them. The casualty, you must go
to check what had happened.
DR: In 1992, more bloodshed. An estimated 200,000 people took to the
streets of Bangkok to protest against the appointment of a military
coup leader as prime minister. Unrest escalated -- A state of
emergency was declared and troops opened fire on crowds. Dozens of
people were killed, and thousands arrested. Samak was deputy prime
minister at the time. The army eventually retreated, ushering in a
period of civilian rule, but the event is forever known as "Black
May."
DR: Again protest against the military government, again your name is
linked to the bloodshed that followed. What would you say to that?
SS: I was deputy prime minister for three times, nobody mentioned
anything. When I resigned and I run as a governor of Bangkok, oh, it's
a murder with blood in hand, you cannot be governor. So I bring the
case to the court. And when the vote come, nobody kept over 1 million,
I got 1 million something, why?
DR: But that doesn't answer the question. Were you involved in 1992?
SS: No. Even any time, I have no involvement. At any time. At any time
of...
DR: Your conscience is clear?
SS: If I do something wrong, I cannot come this far. I think my hand
is clean and then I can live with it. The people of this country know
me, who I am, so I am not afraid. But why they put a stamp on me?
Because I don't like the press. I don't like the media. I think
actually when they talk good to me, they talk good to them. When they
put something slash out to me, I just slash back to them. When you
punch me, I punch back. There is no written document that says by
human feeling that the prime minister should be a good guy, should
talk soft...
DR: I mean, are you a good guy? How would you describe yourself?
SS: Somebody must describe me, I cannot describe myself. But for me,
if I have something wrong, I cannot come this far. But the hatred of
some people, yes, but for me yeah, I don't hate them, I just feel pity
that they have an ill feeling to me.
BLOCK C
DR: Indulging in a lifelong passion, cooking. Samak became a celebrity
chef with his show "Tasting while Grumbling" in 2000, extolling the
virtues of Thai cuisine and trips to the local market. He immersed
himself in the show after losing office during the 2006 coup, but it's
currently off-air since its broadcaster was taken over by Thailand's
previous military-appointed government.
DR: You have a lot of passions in life, not only politics. Cooking is
one of your great passions, interests.
SS: Actually I have a normal life. I started with a little bit
difficulty family. We cannot say poor, we can manage to earn, but
father, mother have nine children, I'm number seven.
DR: So your poor background to start with?
SS: Yeah, poor background, and by this way, I have to select everyone
-- This one do the cleaning, this one do the washing, I do the cooking
at 7 years old. That's why I cook from that time on, and I think it's
right. And I think cooking is an art, and I have done this until now.
So for the family first, and then for my own family afterwards, and
then now. Ten years ago, when I was an MP, they give one hour on
Saturday evening 5-6, just to talk politics. So I spend about two
years, it's a bore, politics is a bore. I said, politics is a bore,
why not we talk about some cooking? So I just start talking about
cooking from that time on. I have a book called "Tasting while
Grumbling."
DR: Tasting while grumbling?
SS: It's about 28 good things to eat. So it's a good book.
DR: And you've had a TV series...
SS: "Cooking While Grumbling," no "Tasting While Grumbling."
DR: And will that program come back on air?
SS: Somebody says that as a prime minister, I have time, but you
should not do such a thing like that. I said, No. I checked to the
constitution already, there's no obstruction with that. But I'll do
something like this, now with my house, the camera would come and
talk. So I will talk about any kind of food of thing, and you're going
to do cooking.
DR: Your image is very much a man of the people, very down-to-earth,
very outspoken, some would say, acerbic. Would you agree with that?
SS: I always say that a man who speaks from the mind, you can go along
with him.
DR: I want to ask you one last question, because we're running out of
time. What about the kind of central theme of much of the criticism
against you is simply that you are not statesman material, that there
would be better leaders of Thailand than you? For example, Kun
Abhisit, the leader of the Democrat Party here. How would you respond
to people who say you're simply not diplomatic enough to be prime
minister?
SS: No. No. Why the ambassador came to see me? Ten ambassadors came to
see me, I have no position then. Ten came already, now the American
ambassador, why? The American embassy here must report who I am. He
can come to talk to me.
DR: And would you say that the people like you?
SS: The people, one million vote for me. Why? Because they know who I
am. Until now, why when I was the leader of PPP, they say it's because
of Thaksin, it might be for some reason, but you can bring anyone to
be the leader, not me. What will happen to the PPP? So it's a
combination, the best of everything that I have done. What they have
performed five years ago. But it must be the quality of the leader,
like I, who lead the party, so who come this far? So I was accepted by
the people everywhere but not the media. This is ok, it's up to you.
You do your duty, I will do mine.
DR: So the country is safe with you?
SS: It must be, and this is my opportunity. Actually to run the
country there are all the permanent secretaries of all the military,
they have done their job. We are the one just to drive the engine. Now
we know how to do that. But one good thing is that, no corrupt. For
me, if I corrupt, I cannot come this far. If Thaksin did it, he must
go to the court, and you must prove.
DR: What will you say will be your top priority in government?
SS: Just bring the country back to normal. When they staged the coup,
United States turned back to us, EC turned back to us, China turned by
the side, Japan turned by the side. So now, when we have a government
from election, so they must turn back and then everything will come
back to normal.
DR: Let's finish, I know you want to talk about your interest in the
naval ships. Tell us about that before...
SS: America has 130 ships like this, 129 sank in the world war. Only
one left over to Thailand. United States asked this for 10 years, but
my colleagues, he says that it's better to give back, so the
procession have done two months ago, we brought it down to Hong Kong
and put it in a dry dock and pull to San Francisco. So you're
returning this ship... to America. Returning the ship and then they
will keep the name, Nakha, keep the name. Keep the garuda, it's a good
omen.
DR: On that good omen, I'm afraid we're going to have to leave it.
Thank you very much for talking to us here on Talk Asia. You're
watching CNN. Join us next time.
.
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