22/2/06:IRAQ/ZAKI CHEHAB(JOURNALIST) SBS INTERVIEW
- From: uneoo@xxxxxxxxxx
- Date: 24 Feb 2006 13:55:39 +1000
"ZAKI CHEHAB: .... I myself rule out this [Sectarian strife] because
if a civil war would take place in Iraq some time it should have
happened, like, a year-and-half or two years ago but I believe,
knowing Iraq very well, their political and religious leadership, that
there are enough wise Sunnis and Shias to avoid such a war. "
news.sbs.com.au/dateline
Archives - February 22, 2006
ZAKI CHEHAB (JOURNALIST) INTERVIEW
Almost by the hour the quagmire that is Iraq gets murkier and nastier,
yesterday being a particularly bloody day. 22 people died in Baghdad
when a car bomb exploded in an outdoor market, while separate
insurgent attacks killed eight others. As the deep divisions between
the Kurds, Sunnis and Shi'ites continue to thwart attempts to form a
stable government in Iraq, the insurgent attacks are unabating.
In short, the place is a hellhole and these days, foreign reporters
enter Iraq at their peril. Zaki Chehab is a Palestinian journalist
based in London. He was the first reporter to broadcast interviews
with members of the insurgency - no mean feat. He's here in Australia
right now promoting his book 'Iraq Ablaze' and George Negus spoke to
him earlier this evening from Brisbane.
7:50 secs
GEORGE NEGUS: Zaki, welcome to Australia. You were one of the first,
if not the first journalist to really talk to the insurgents in
Iraq. How did you do that without placing yourself in incredible
danger?
ZAKI CHEHAB, AUTHOR/JOURNALIST: In fact I was in danger. Just the idea
of being with insurgents in the middle of the Sunni triangle in Iraq
definitely is in danger.
When you walk along beside militiamen who have guns in an area
controlled completely by large numbers of American soldiers definitely
you're in danger and if you move during the night at a time after the
curfew, which starts usually in that part of Iraq after 9:00, also you
should be ready, mentally, to be fired at, so it was really completely
a very risky job for me.
The temptation is that it was the first footage in the world of the
insurgents in Iraq. The first statement was through me, George.
GEORGE NEGUS: Right. Zaki, as we speak the insurgency is not abating -
it is going on, it is probably worse than it ever was. If you had to
describe the breakdown of insurgents - because they're not monolithic
- how would you describe them?
ZAKI CHEHAB: Believe me, there are large numbers. I remember at the
early stage after the fall of the regime I heard the American
Secretary of State talking about a few hundred.
Six months later he said there are about a few thousand and hopefully
in a year's time we will finish them. Yesterday I - today, sorry, I
read in the 'Australian' that the commander of American forces, who
happen to be in this country, he estimated the number of insurgents at
about 20,000.
It is impossible to give a right figure for one single reason - many
who are discreetly doing it without even than knowledge of their
parents or their family members so it is quite difficult to guess how
much.
In terms of answering your question, there are different backgrounds -
there are nationalists, there are Islamists, there are some foreign
fighters, they are ex-Ba'athist, there are someone really who, at some
stage, they were enjoying the power and authority and found themselves
these days with no authority, with no power and with even no role to
play. That's really what puts them in command is their willingness to
see foreign forces leaving the country.
GEORGE NEGUS: So that is the one thing they have in common - American
withdrawal - but is that likely to happen and, as I understand from
reading your book, you seem to be suggesting it will be a disaster if
the Americans stay and a disaster if they leave. Where does that leave
usr
ZAKI CHEHAB: That is really the biggest question, George, because I
asked many Sunnis. Just recently I was in Baghdad for the last
election and I asked some of them, "Do you really want to see American
forces leaving Iraq tomorrow?" They really thought about what I asked,
about sudden withdrawal. They said, "No. We want a very good
relationship with the West."
They were Sunnis. They were from Mosul, they were from Ramadi they
said, "All we need is a timetable for the withdrawal of American
forces and Western forces from Iraq."
GEORGE NEGUS: If I could interrupt you there - what you think that
timetable should be? Because the Americans keep changing their mind
about when they are leaving. Our PM, for instance, says that we are
going to stay there, our coalition troops, until "the job is done".
How long do you think that staged, gradual withdrawal should take?
What is the timetable?
ZAKI CHEHAB: To be precise, President Bush and others, Tony Blair and
others have been saying that, "We are going to withdraw from Iraq the
minute we feel that Iraqis are capable "of looking after their
security."
But the question is how long is it going to take Iraqis to have their
own security, their own proper army? And only yesterday or the day
before an investigation started about death squads in the Interior
Ministry.
Sunnis in Iraq claimed that these death squads, who are supposed to be
regular police, are responsible for killing large numbers of prominent
Sunnis in Iraq, so there is a question about the quality of the
forces, the quality of the police and how far the army, as well, is
prepared.
GEORGE NEGUS: Some of the fears being expressed in the West, Zaki,
include the fact that if the Americans were to withdraw and coalition
forces there would be genuine civil war - Kurds, Shi'ites, Sunnis - in
Iraq. Is that the worst-case scenario as you see it?
ZAKI CHEHAB: That might be possible. I myself rule out this because if
a civil war would take place in Iraq some time it should have
happened, like, a year-and-half or two years ago but I believe,
knowing Iraq very well, their political and religious leadership, that
there are enough wise Sunnis and Shias to avoid such a war.
The point is how far the US is willing to give al-Qa'ida and Zarqawi
and their band terrorists this victory on a plate because any
immediate withdrawal of American forces and Western forces from Iraq
is a victory for al-Qa'ida, a victory for terrorism and then al-Qa'ida
and their affiliates would claimed that we managed to force Western
and American-led coalition in Iraq to withdraw, so I suspect that the
American forces are going to withdraw in the near future.
GEORGE NEGUS: What you mean by near future?
ZAKI CHEHAB: Even yesterday there was a statement here in Australia by
the commander of American forces saying definitely they are staying
the course for 2006 and I'm sure it means more than a few years to
have enough and capable Iraqi police and army to look after their own
borders and to ensure the security of their country.
GEORGE NEGUS: Meanwhile the insurgency will go on, the killing will go
on, and maybe if the Americans left the Shi'ites and the Sunnis would
be killing each other rather than Americans.
ZAKI CHEHAB: One thing of importance we have noticed recently - in the
last two weeks - serious meetings start taking place between American
commanders on the ground and tribal leaders, who either represent
insurgents or large importance of insurgent groups and a long these
meetings there were members of the Iraqi government even including the
Prime Minister and the Interior and Defence Minister of Iraq.
This is really a very important sign because this is the first time a
high-profile meeting has taken place in Iraq. If you look back at the
election, the last election in Iraq was very interesting. This is the
first time Sunnis go to vote in large numbers and this came as a
result of the feeling that they felt recently that they have got
really a role to play that there is a chance for them to contribute in
the political process.
What is important to see in the coming few weeks is what kind of
government Iraq is going to have, that really is the main question
now.
GEORGE NEGUS: Zaki, thanks for your time. Let's end on that better
than pessimistic note. Thanks very much for your time. I hope you
don't find Australia too boring after what you have been through.
ZAKI CHEHAB: Thanks.
.
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