Re: Resurrecting the Commonwealth?

On Nov 22, 9:34 am, Dmitry <dmitrijsfedot...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Wow!  What a success story!  She might decide to move back to Germany
when Ukraine unite with Poland and a sporty Audi is stolen by the
Ukrainians who moved to Warsaw but not yet found employment there, you
never know.

And here Dmitry's anti-Ukrainian racism becomes apparent.

Dmitry as an anti-Ukrainian racist.  It's a new label, I've never been
racist in scb before -))

Well, what would you call it when the first thing that comes to mind
about Ukrainians in Warsaw is, a stolen car. If someone were to say
"if visa restictions for Russians are eliminated, cars will be stolen
by Russians moving to Europe" this would also reveal that person's
racism, no?

Despite the communist past, Poland is far wealthier than Ukraine.

Poland and Ukraine were about equally wealthy in 1990. The
differences now are a reflection of mismanagement of the country by
Ukraine's leaders. Poland's leaders were generally patriots devoted to
helping their country. Ukraine's leaders were the old Soviet ruling
class with no loyalty to their country, who used independence to
plunder it.

Poland establish a relationship with Ukraine that allows Ukrainians to
easily arrive and settle in Poland a fair part of Ukrainian population
will take this advantage.  Perhaps Poland is now ready to handle it, I
don't know.

The Poles were forced by the EU to implement visa controls on
Ukrainians when Poland joined the EU. The Polish government tried to
fight this policy.

Relative to cost of living Polish salaries are higher in certain
industries. And its about the future - they are rising.

Good for them.

Half of the estimated one million British-based Poles are expected to
return home, said the Centre for International Relations, a Warsaw-
based think-tank.

I wonder how often the thinking tank is updating their findings.  Many
things changed since last November.

Has Polish economy gotten worse vis a vis the British one since that

According to some sources Polish economy has grown 1.4% this year, UK
- 3.2%.

Could be anything.  Do CPL know how many are returning from Germany or
United States.  How exactly do they measure arrive/return ratio?

Are you stating they are lying or that you know more than they do?
And you know more than do the journalists at the Times who wrote the

I'm not stating that they are lying, just questioning how the figures
were obtained.  It is obvious that emigration of Poles to UK has
slowed down and is unlikely to increase in nearest future.  However,
I'm not convinced that we are going to see 1/3 of existing British
residents of Polish origin leaving this country next year.

Why would Poles stay in England if they make more (relative to cost of
living) in their own country.

 It is always good to have close ties between people of
different countries.  What exactly was the plan of Polish Government?

Probably to create a close Ukrainian-Polish partnership akin to the
current Franco-German one.

It is easy to create such relationship when both partners are on the
same or similar level.  It can be still OK if the disadvantaged side
is much smaller in size (so the wealth can be shared without
significant side effects).  Ukraine is massive; it has population
larger than Poland.  Also Ukraine is politically unstable.

No doubt Ukraine has problems. This does not mean the goal is not
important for both countries.

Great!  Why is Poland buying steel from Russia whilst trying to
establish some "very special" ties with Ukraine?


Shouldn't they buy steel from Ukraine instead?

They are boycotting Ukrainian steel or something?

Crimea's Russian population is tiny and in reality not very important.

According to 2001 Ukrainian Census, the population of Crimea was
2,033,700.[47] The ethnic makeup was comprised the following self-
reported groups: Russians: 58.32%; Ukrainians: 24.32%; Crimean Tatars:
12.1%; Belarusians: 1.44%; Tatars: 0.54%; Armenians: 0.43%; Jews:
0.22%; and Italians: 0.015%.

It is important because that part is particularly keen in having very
close ties with Russia.

Sure.  But it's better to think of the long term than the short-term.
Crimean Russians are not reproducing. They are dying out.  In the long
term, they are irrelevant.  Crimea lost 400,000 people between 1989
and 2001.  And that's IN SPITE OF the influx of a couple 100,000
Criman tatars.

Many of them have left for Russia.  Those who remained are still
having children,

The Russian pensioners?

so I don't think they are going to die out.

Sure, there are a few young Russians having a few kids, but the
overall picture is a demographic catastrophe. Crimea lost 16% of its
population between the last Soviet census and 2001.

There are also things like this, with Lenin and red flags

Yes, but Ukraine is very unlikely to provide any assistance in this

Your claim that a nation of 45 million educated people with the most
fertile farmland in the world, one of the top streel producers, with a
functioning space industry wouldn't be an advantage.

I am starting to think that your perception of Ukraine has an element
of idealism.

How so?

Only for a generation or so.

This can be assessed in 12 years time, no point speculating now.- Hide quoted text -

Well, Crimea's Russian population dropped from 65% to 58% in about 10
years. The next census will be in 2011 - it will be interestng to see
if Russians will even be the majority in Crimea then.



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