Re: Wilno and Vilnius Re: "Russia, Again Evading History"

On Jun 29, 7:15 pm, "Ostap S. B. M. Bender Jr."
<ostap_bender_1...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

However, as I understand, it is highly debatable whether the Grand
Duchy of Lithuania and its capital Vilnius were Lithuanian or Polish.
In fact, the Wiki's list of official languages in the Grand Duchy of
Lithuania is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania

Language(s):
Polish
Latin
Ruthenian
German


Great link to wikipedia. Please, refer to the following paragraph -
perhaps you missed it:

+++++++++++
"Demographics and languages

The nucleus of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was the land of Lithuania,
the ethnic land of Lithuanians. At the birth of the Grand Duchy,
ethnic Lithuanians made up about 70% of the population.[42] With the
acquisition of new Ruthenian territories, this portion decreased to
50% and later to 30%[43] By the time of the largest expansion towards
Rus' lands, the end of the 13th and during the 14th century, the
territory of the GDL was about 800 thousand km2, 10% of which was
ethnically Lithuanian,[44] or up to 930 thousand km2 with 14% or 1/7
of population being ethic Lithuanian.[42] An estimate of the
population in the territory of Poland and Grand Duchy of Lithuania
together gives a population at 7.5 million for 1493, breaking them
down by ethnicity at 3.25 million Poles, 3.75 million Ruthenians and
0.5 million Lithuanians.[45] With the Union of Lublin, 1569,
Lithuanian Grand Duchy lost large part of lands to the Polish Crown
(see demographics of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth). In the mid
and lte 17th century, due to Russian and Swedish invasions, there was
much devastation and population loss on throughout the GDL,[46]
including ethnic Lithuanian population in Vilnius surroundings.
Besides devastation, Ruthenian population declined proportionally
after the territorial losses to Russian Empire. By 1770 there were
about 4.84 million inhabitants in the territory of 320 thousand km2,
the biggest part of whom were inhabitants of Ruthenia and about 1.39
million or 29% – of ethnic Lithuania.[42] During the following
decades, the population decreased in a result of partitions.[42]"
+++++++++++

Frankly I find this discussion boring. Is Vilnius in Lithuania now?
Yes. Was there Polish influence? Yes. Was there Lithuanian influence?
Yes. Was there Belarussian influence? Yes. Why was Vilnius given to
Poland in 1920 and did the government of Poland violate any treaties
at that time? Why was Vilnius given to Lithuania in 1940? Who was in
charge in Lithuania at that time?
Was it fair to all parties concerned - in both cases 1920 and 1940?

Your answer and opinion can be tweaked depending on which side you
take and then adjusting the time period and selecting facts.

One can exchange facts with no end - but things are what they are. The
issue is convoluted - Oskar Milosz, Cz. Milosz, A. Shtromas,
T.Venclova wrote about it - and I guess they are not the last ones.

As for me, I admire Vilnius, but I also admire the pre-war Kaunas and
its impact on the country. I think Stalin gave Vilnius to Lithuania to
weaken Poland - should it go back to Poland now? But then how about
Danzig, Breslau etc? Should they go to Germany - following the same
logic? How about Karelia or Kuril islands or Kaliningrad oblast? How
about Lviv? What is your take on this Karla?

Just to keep ahead in the game - I guess the next idea from Karla will
be something about the Jews. I have to tell you that what happened
during the WWII in my opinion is the greatest tragedy, and
unfortunately many in Lithuania do not understand this. Burlega (who
posts on this group) is a prime example. Lithuanian politicians should
do whatever they can to make things right in this respect ASAP - for
they spent too much time already.

Now Karla or Ostap or whoever you are - get a life. And once you
become free of your homo sovieticus complexes you can slowly and
carefully start using your real name. Nobody will laugh at you. And -
believe me - you might find that liberating. Once that happens - I
promise - I might take a look at your posts.

-EZ
http://tautietis.blogspot.com
.

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