Re: Russian out, English in

In article
<9790c4ae-a38c-4e8b-b169-24945af68aab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Tadas
Blinda <tadas.blinda@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On May 23, 5:52=A0pm, hol...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Eugene Holman) wrote:

Smebody has to. I would be extremely disturbed if the teaching of Russian=
,
the largest language on the European continent, the language spoken along
much of the eastern border of the EU, and one of the leading languages in
which new scientific information is produced to a significant degree, wer=
e
to be totally ignored within the EU.

Interesting paragraph. Let's examine it.

Smebody has to.

No comment.

I would be extremely disturbed if the teaching of Russian,
the largest language on the European continent, the language spoken along
much of the eastern border of the EU, and one of the leading languages in
which new scientific information is produced to a significant degree, wer=
e
to be totally ignored within the EU.

I would be extremely disturbed ... =97 What do you mean "would be"? (S=
orry, I couldn't resist that! :-)

the largest language on the European continent,

"The largest language"? How do you measure that? Kilograms?
Centimetres? Metres?

Both speakers and territory where it is the default medium of communication.

I doubt that European Russia even has more
inhabitants than Germany,

You are easily proven wrong.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Russia

<quote>
Roughly 78% of the entire Russian population lives in European Russia, at
an average of 27 persons per square kilometre (10.5 per square mile).[1]
</quote>

According to the CIA World Factbook
(https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html#People)
the entire Russian population is estimated to be 140,041,247.

The same source
(https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gm.html#People)
lists the population of Germany as 82,329,758.

78% of 140,041,247 is 109,232,173.

and or many of those citizens, Russian
isn't their native language.

The large linguistic minorities in Russia are to be found in Asian, not
European Russia. As a Balt, you sould be particularly aware of this.
Russification policy in European Russia dats back almost three centuries
and has largely been aimed at forced assimilation. Policy in Asia dates
back only two centuries and, although never consistent, has generally
regarded the languages of the region to be more of an asset to be
preserved and studied than as a liability to be liquidated. Remember P.S.
Pallas's great and amazing dictionary *Linguarum totius orbis vocabularia
comparativa*
(http://books.google.com/books?id=TiwVAAAAQAAJ&dq=pallas+totius&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=wPm6RwBQG5&sig=rVYpyX6l691QCITIr6F5y4EWP9E&hl=en&ei=7SkZSrCTAou5_QbGmJnZDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1).

the language spoken along much of the eastern border of the EU

To a diminishing extent with every passing day. I know for a fact
that any serious business dealings between Russia and the Baltics (not
smuggling cigarettes and stolen cars and crap like that) takes place
in English.

Still, more than 100,000,000 speakers and their desire for goods and
service in their native language are not to be ignored. For the time
being, Russians are not as arrogant about their native languages as
English speakers tend to be, but they do appreciate, and are increasingly
ready and able to pay a premium for, service in their native language.


and one of the leading languages in which new scientific information is p=
roduced to a
significant degree

Produced or just translated into Russian, mostly from English, just as
it is translated into so many other language?

No. Russia, Israel, and a few other countries such as Belarus and Ukraine,
have scientists producing new information, particularly in the fields of
mathematics, theoretical physics, and cybernetics, in Russian. It is a
fraction of what is produced in English, but still far more than is
produced in French, Spanish, Italian, or even German.


Russia is never going to be in EU (it is more Asian than European, and
not just geographically), so it does not deserve special status or
consideration any more than do Hindi/Urdu, Chinese, Japanese or
Arabic.

It is currently spoken in Eu countries more widely than those other
languages. Since 1991, Russian has gone global, promting itself as a
language worth learning, while the other languages

I cannot answer that question competently. Russian is a major European
language

Cling to that mantra, Yevgennij, cling to that ... Hope it sustains
you.

and at least a million native speakers of Russian legally reside
within the EU.

And they are citizens of other countries. Turkish isn't going to be
recognised as an EU language because millions of Turks live in
Germany.

Turkey has a relationship with the EU that is quite differen,
qualitatively and qunatitatively, from that of Russia.

Even if it has no official status within the EU, Russian
has a relationship with the EU languages that other major world languages
such as Arabic, Chinese, and Hindi/Urdu do not have.

You wish. I had an interesting though once: about people's vices
being their own punishment. The paranoia of the Russians is their own
punishment.

Here we are in complete agreement. However, a far more open-minded, well
travelled, and self-confident generation of Russians is in the works. Even
Putin is a more modern European-type person than a Brezhnev or Chernenko.

I have in mind the fact that if they had any brains and
were less paranoid, they would pretend grant the Kaliningrad oblast
its independence. Then K-grad could apply to join EU and the Kremlin
would eventually have a Russian-speaking puppet state in the EU.
Thank goodness they are too stupid and too paranoid to ever
contemplate this scenario, and they value their phallic dildo K-grad
naval base too much.

Kaliningrad is war booty. It is unlikely that Russia will be able to see
it as anything else as long as veterans of the "Great Patriotic War" are
still around.

I would suspect that a plaintiff would have a far better chance of filing=
suit in Russian,
the langauge of the EU's main trading partner, than he would have filing =
suit
in Chinese, Japanese, Bengali, Arabic, Swahili, or Hindi/Urdu.

Got any evidence of that? Or indeed that EU does more trade with
Russia than it does with China? And once new energy sources are found
to replace fossil fuels (which includes natural gas), The Russians are
going to be in a bad way.

I stand corrected. The EU does more trade with the US and China than it
does with Russia, even if Russia, its third largest trading partner, is
primarily a supplier of raw materials, while the US and China provide
mostly industrial products and services. For details, see e.g.
http://www.china.org.cn/international/2009-05/22/content_17818872.htm. I
agree with you that it will be interesting to follow what happens to the
EU/Russia relationship as fossile fuels are phased out.

Regards,
Eugene Holman
.

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