Re: Putka is really frothing.

On 23 Nov., 22:33, Eugene Holman <hol...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article
<bb6193e3-527b-48e3-9b08-cfd4c4f82...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"Pïteris Cedri¿" (Peteris Cedrins)" <cedr...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Eugene,

Simple measures of GDP, income, and even Gini, etc., do not really
show you whether there's a real middle class or not.

The thousands of Russians who visit Finland every day, many families in
late model, up-market cars, show that there is a Russian middle class.

Bullshit. Latvia is the fastest growing new car market in Europe and
has been for a while -- you think that this is a sign of a middle
class? Nope, sorry. It's a sign of a lot of credit and a culture
obsessed with material status. What's the average salary in Piter? Who
gets it? Excuse me, Eugene, but if you think new cars and nice houses
are indicators of a middle class, you really are of your rocker.

As recently as five years ago they came in busses and lived in cheap
hotels. A not insignificant number of the attractive young women among
them earned extra spending cash by practicing the world's allegedly
oldest profession.

Your favorite subject, yes. So now oil wealth trickled down so heavily
that your beloved whores have dignified occupations, or what?

As I said, you can see this in a microcosm here -- as Alvis Hermanis
suggested when he refused to receive the Republic's highest civil
decoration last week, there's no doubt at all that we'll be just as
rich as the West at some point, probably soon. That's not the issue.
We can all make money and buy fancy cars. You think that composes a
middle class?

Practically speaking, all of that stuff is gone now.
Russian tourists come here now to enjoy the water parks, ski, or
vacation in pristine natural surroundings.

Wawawewa!

[snip]

Have you ever *been* to Russia/USSR?

Yes. I have never been to St. Petersburg, but I have been to Moscow. I
also traveled through Ukraine and Belarus. I live in the so-called
former USSR (i.e., formerly Russian-occupied Latvia), and I happen to
think that one learns a lot more by living somewhere. I'm afraid I
have little faith in your point of view. You once told me that IU
would learn "what is really going on" through translation. I have seen
a pretty broad slice of life, I think. If you think _biznismeny_ and
their ruling oligarchs mouthing refried phrases are what life is
about, I pity you.

I have been visiting regularly
since the mid-1980s, first having been there in 1966 (Estonia, the USSR,
but not Russia) and 1970 (Leningrad). I know what I am talking about as
concerns the unprecedented prosperity and the spread of wealth to
provincial cities such as Vyborg, which I once dubbed "the armpit of
Europe".

I don't think you do know, actually. Because you never understood it
at all. You always thought that the "Baltic revolution" was about
_mobilniki_. It was exactly the opposite -- the point was to get out
from Russian rule (_Russian_, not necessarily Soviet) even barefoot.
Once out, we can do anything.

Not according to many of the
Russians I meet, anyway. One person I met who taught in Saratov said
that the universal answer to "what are you going to do when you finish
school" was "go to Moscow."

Not a bad idea, considering that Moscow is the largest, glitziest,
gaudiest, most dynamic city in Europe right now. Its population of
(dollar) billionaires competes only with New York.

Great idea (?), except that Russia is not Latvia. This idea works
badly in Latvia, y'know -- so how could it work in Russia, strewn
imperialistically across eleven time zones?

What I meant to indicate by the quote was "there is no future in
Saratov." Sorry, but there just ain't. This is something that is
happening all over the world. Brain drain, etc. Piter and Moscow are
attractive, and they'll develop. Riga is the metropolis of the Baltics
-- likewise. Wiser societies invest in their regions, like Ireland did
before getting rich, and as part of getting rich.

Most dynamic city in Europe? It's not in Europe, Eugene, and probably
never will be. It's the Third Rome. Hey, Harbin is doubtless just as
glitzy and is in China.

Why is your focus incessantly on crap like "dollar billionaires"? They
define a society? Hardly.

[To be continued, as for you!]

Regards,
/P

http://lettonica.blogspot.com/

.

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