Re: Aesti
- From: holman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Eugene Holman)
- Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:06:55 +0200
In article <5POdnYeZSb3PKunenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "henry alminas"
<halminas@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
><deleted>
>
> Ya gotta love Holman and wikipedia. Holman passes off anything
> russkie-generated as the truth and wikipedia puts everything out.
The map just happened to be conveniently there. Similar maps can be found
in any demographic history of north-western Russia. It is not particularly
detailed, but clear enough to illustrate the basic facts: no-longer spoken
Finno-Ugric languages, specifically Meshcher, Merya, and Murom, once
formed a linguistic bridge between the forms of Finno-Ugric that have
evolved into Estonian and Vepsian in the north-west, and into Mordvin in
the south-east. This has been known to historians for hundreds of years,
and verified by linguists using different evidence more than a century
ago.
If you don't trust Wikopedia on principle, get a hold of Prof.
Zinkevicius's 'Lietuviu kalbos kilme*, vol. 1. Starting on page 147 there
is a section called "Baltu priesistorines gyvenamosios vietos". It
contains a detailed and documented discussion of the issue as well as a
map documenting the extent to which Baltic hydronyms are found. I would
have listed this, but I somehow thought it might be a more recondite
reference for the average reader of SCB than the Wikipedia map.
> (Frankly that thing is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard of.)
That's because you were born Alminas, and thus never had to hear of
yourself. Like any source, Wikopedia has to be used critically. I have
been quite satisfied with most of the articles about languages and
language families.
> It seems that by the 9th century there were about 9 Balts
> - with only 2 left within the territory of modern Lithuania.
Such crap. The Balts have been in the Baltic area for more than 4,000
years. However they, like the Finn-Ugric peoples in the area, have been
losing people and languages to the Slavs. Baltic langauges were once
spoken across what is now Belarus; Mordvin (look at the map if you are
unfamiliar with this language) has dozens of loanwords and other features
attesting to contact with Baltic in the distant past. The issue of
Baltic-Mordvin contacts is discussed in Prof. Zinkevicius's book mentioned
above, starting on page 173.
> Oy vey - the slavophiliacs have been busy - no?
Unh, no, Henrykins. The discussion was about pre-Slavic peoples:
Finno-Ugric-speaking foragers and agriculuralists who spoke the late
Indo-European dialect that evolved into Proto-Baltic.
Best,
Eugene Holman
.
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