Re: An excerpt from Snopes on the Cosby Speech


xeno wrote:

> There's nothing apparently self-hating about the above nor self-defeating.
> I didn't say people shouldn't learn standard English.

And Cosby didn't say people should never use slang. He inferred from
listening to this child's PARENTS talk that they COULDN'T speak
standard English. I know you're not so naive that you can't fathom
that there is a LARGE group in our community that CAN'T read and
that CAN'T put together a grammatically correct sentence if
their life depended on it. THAT was what Cosby was clearly talking
about.

> But it strikes me as
> ridiculous to get so bent out of shape at people talking amongst
> themselves in speech they all understand.

That wasn't what "bent Cosby out of shape". Cosby was bent out
of shape over the 50 % DROP OUT RATE in some communities.
He identified that fact that some people can't talk standard Enlish
as one of the causes.

> I've seen other people talk
> amongst themselves in their native whatever-you-want-to-call-it & they can
> speak in standard English when the circumstances call for it.

And that's clearly NOT what Bill Cosby is talking about. How many
people do you know stay in "slang" mode when meeting a nationally
known personality? Typically that's a sign that they CAN'T transistion
to standard English. Bill Cosby understands and has used slang.
He was a standup commedian after all! He's making the point
about people who CAN'T make that transition.

> Why on earth
> would you object to Black people doing what everybody else does w/o so
> much censure? It's that attitude, IMO, that really reflects self-hatred &
> self-defeatism.

Nobody is objecting to that. The objection is that there are many
people
who CAN'T make the transition as reflected in the 50% DROPOUT RATE!

> > Cosby is NOT "attacking black dialects".
>
> Well, evidently he is by not recognizing the speech he objects to as being
> a black dialect.

Oh, so you want him to bow dow and kiss *** of the "ebonics" god that
silly
elitists have set up?

> > Like I said, there's nothing wrong with slang as long as it's not your
> > PRIMARY LANGUAGE!
>
> That would depend on the circumstances. IMO, the direction this society is
> taking calls for multi-lingualism. Just knowing one language is likely
> going to be more & more of a disadvantage. That means, for instance, in a
> place like San Francisco, you're better off knowing some Spanish, Tagalog,
> Cantonese, & English, than not. Being a prig about standard English only ,
> in one sense or another, is a little silly in a polyglot situation.

If you want your child to learn an authentic African language let him
learn Swahili. "Ebonics" is no more important for your child to learn
than
"redneck".


> > Note when he said: "And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk."
> > So the parent he's using as an example was (apparently) UNABLE to
> > transition back to "standard English".
>
> That isn't readily apparent at all. & at any rate, you're not going to
> solve the problem by getting down on people.

And so your solution is getting down on people who are getting down
on the problems in the black community. How "enlightened" of you.

> A more reasonable solution
> are ESL classes.

ROTFLMAO. Ok. I've heard some silly ideas in my life, but this
one takes the cake. ESL for African Americans? That's self
ghettoization to the extreme. Thirty years ago we didn't put
slang on a pedestle and it's ridiculous to do that now. But
since you're so "pro-ebonics" which version do you want to
promote as our "official" black language? The southern one
(which is close to redneck), the South Caroline "geechie"
version (which really is a legitimate dialec) the "big city
gansta" version that's been popularized through rap?

> > I might use "slang" when I chatting with my "hommies" but I wouldn't use
> > it when talking to a stranger and CERTAINLY not when talking with a
> > nationally known personality. This is SELF GHETTOIZATION and it's
> > WRONG!
>
>
> If Bill Cosby expects people in the hood to fall down & kiss his ass just
> because he shows up there, he's living in a dream world.

It's not about "kissing ass" and I really don't think you even believe
that.
Look and what you've written hear. You're communicating in a
"black" newsgroup, yet you've written your entire post in standard
English. Why is that? If you're SO PROUD of your black dialect
then why aren't you using it? In Spanish, Vietnamese and Cantonese
newsgroups you'll often see people posting in Spanish, Vietnamese
and Cantonese. But here, speaking to other black people about
black Enlish you're sticking to black English. Does that mean you
are "kissing ass"? Or does it mean you're just a hypocrite?

Regards,

John M. Drake

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