Re: An excerpt from Snopes on the Cosby Speech



On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 jmdrake_98@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

>>> They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't
>>> even talk the way these people talk: Why you ain't, Where you is, What
>>> he drive, Where he stay, Where he work, Who you be... And I blamed the
>>> kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk.

>> Cosby is a racist idiot. Use of one doesn't preclude the use of the other.
>> IOW, it's not necessary for him to attack Black dialects in order to
>> promote learning standard English.

> Oh please! This is the same self-hating self-defeating crap that I was
> talking about in the ridiculous "pro black English" essay I had to read
> in college!

There's nothing apparently self-hating about the above nor self-defeating.
I didn't say people shouldn't learn standard English. But it strikes me as
ridiculous to get so bent out of shape at people talking amongst
themselves in speech they all understand. I've seen other people talk
amongst themselves in their native whatever-you-want-to-call-it & they can
speak in standard English when the circumstances call for it. Why on earth
would you object to Black people doing what everybody else does w/o so
much censure? It's that attitude, IMO, that really reflects self-hatred &
self-defeatism.

> Cosby is NOT "attacking black dialects".

Well, evidently he is by not recognizing the speech he objects to as being
a black dialect.

> Like I said, there's nothing wrong with slang as long as it's not your
> PRIMARY LANGUAGE!

That would depend on the circumstances. IMO, the direction this society is
taking calls for multi-lingualism. Just knowing one language is likely
going to be more & more of a disadvantage. That means, for instance, in a
place like San Francisco, you're better off knowing some Spanish, Tagalog,
Cantonese, & English, than not. Being a prig about standard English only ,
in one sense or another, is a little silly in a polyglot situation.


> Note when he said: "And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk."
> So the parent he's using as an example was (apparently) UNABLE to
> transition back to "standard English".

That isn't readily apparent at all. & at any rate, you're not going to
solve the problem by getting down on people. A more reasonable solution
are ESL classes.


> I might use "slang" when I chatting with my "hommies" but I wouldn't use
> it when talking to a stranger and CERTAINLY not when talking with a
> nationally known personality. This is SELF GHETTOIZATION and it's
> WRONG!


If Bill Cosby expects people in the hood to fall down & kiss his ass just
because he shows up there, he's living in a dream world. So, when some
non-black person comes up to you & uses black speech, are you going to
throw a hissy fit & say it's inappropriate, or what?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT: Guide to conservative blogs
    ... But if they are US citizens, they should also speak English. ... The easiest way to learn a language is in the country it's spoken. ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: Proper Usage
    ... to learn writers such as Shakespeare, Descartes, Wollstonecraft ... English as you dictate good writers are to use. ... Ms. Gurl, your posts often make me feel as if I've been transported ... Bannister's logic is, paraphrased, "unless a writer uses standard English, ...
    (alt.usage.english)
  • Re: Dexter
    ... and Mexican invasion as these folk will not learn English or assimilate. ... I'm waiting for someone to prove that the 3rd generation of immigrants ... STILL do not speak English. ... language and English second because and people refuse to speak English ...
    (rec.arts.tv)
  • Re: OT: US Immigration Legislation
    ... American citizens speak ENGLISH. ... If saying that we should speak ENGLISH ... people that are here with "illegal immigrant" status. ...
    (comp.dsp)
  • Foreign Languages- A Waste of Time.
    ... people speak English, and prefer to speak it to foreigners. ... speakers who live in non-English speaking countries for decades and who ... I am an avid foreign language learner, and I seem to be a dying breed ...
    (sci.lang)