Re: for BMJ and all other parochial lot re moon landing


Straydog wrote:
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006, Kamal R. Prasad wrote:

[snip[
I am havigna problem locating your post. Sometimes, google creates a
lag in showing posts and may even delete posts. Google is just a usenet
browser -not usenet in itself.
So, pl send me your saved copy of the post by email.


..and since there are so many that think that people in other countries
cannot continue from where they left off aka offshoring -they ought to
switch careers and do something trivial.

When IBM, and all the rest decide to use $6 bil dollars in India and NOT
in the USA, then that means guys here will never get even a chance to get
any of those jobs that will come with the $6 bil and most don't want to
even think about going to India because--even I would recommend against
it--IBM in India wants to hire only Indians, not US guys who are willing
to transfer. If IBM and the others would say that US guys will be hired in
India, at Indian wages, if they come first and make application, then they
can spend airfare, some hotel or appartment, and risk a rejection. I would

No -not just IBM but a lot of companies are sending their personnel to
India on deputation. Further, lots of americans are applying for jobs
in India. Why hire americans in India than in the USA esp if the
company is based in the USA? Because the location offers a comparative
advantage vs the USA. As long as american companies have competitors to
deal with who utilize India's comparative advantage in waging a price
war with them, american companies will be forced either to shift to the
same location and neutralize their competitors' comparative advantage
or get decimated.


not even consider it. I'm not going to say the quality of the work is
better or worse. And, I can understand that IBM and the others will try to
sell services to India and make money off of India at some time, too.

it is possible to find both good and bad quality work in India.
Companies are moving their high end work too to India. But it doesn't
happen at the switch of a button. They have a risk analysis model
-wherein they move slightly more critical work to see if it goes
successfully and then keep raising the bar. Whether or not, all
critical work will shift depends on whether the manpower located
overseas can successfully deliver the goods. So, comparative advantage
is a function of both costs and quality of work and if the work does
move, it means they deserved it for the good work they have put it.
None of the baloney you read on usenet is ever going to make a
fundamental difference to how things pan out.

Maybe it will be Wipro, Infosys, and Tata that need to be worried about
IBM, Sun, MS, etc., if the US guys take Indians away from Wipro, etc.
India will benefit from jobs generated in India. The USA will lose all
those jobs. At least for decades.

I guess -which is why I said your monetary policy and std of living
cannot be sustained by your productivity.

But the wise ones wouldn't
want to waste their time doing so coz they just voted to categorize me
as a moose.

To me, you are not a moose. You are not stupid. You do know some things.
But, at least if you have one view and some other people have another
view, then maybe you need some time to think about the difference.
However, there is nothing wrong--and it is polite, too--to just say "Let
me think about this some more" or "I need some time to think about this."

yeah -but sometimes I tend to extrapolate based on their
nationalistic/racial jingo-ism and not look at their pov on account of
that.

Fine. This is the way disputes escalate into wars.

Its my fault -so instead of declaring it didn't happen -I will
just say that im trying to gather proof that it did happen for sure.

Maybe its bad to expect _proof_ one way or the other. Maybe better to
think in terms of doubts and/or confidence. If you ask me to _prove_ the
moonshot took place all as said, I would decline. But, for me, I have
very little doubt. That means I have room in my brain for a little tiny
bit of doubt and I am willing to look at an acusation that your photos
show some evidence or trace of fakery. OK, so I looked hard and I can't
confirm the defects described in your questions. I think I was reasonable.

Today, I think differently about a few things than I thought about the
same things 10-20-30 years ago. Am I right, now, and wrong back then? Or,
vice versa? OK, I'll say there is very little truth in the world, and
just a little more fact, and a whole lot of opinions, viewpoints,
misunderstandings, dogma, and quite a bit of stupidity, too (my idea is
our US war in Iraq is stupid, and I had that idea since before it
started).


To quote 1 republican politician (think Chuck Hagel) -this is our 2nd
vietnam
To quote 1 democrat before the 2004 election -this is W's Vietnam
To quote John Edwards in 2004 -they aren't telling you the whole
truth, Its a collosal error.
To quote Anthony Zinni [ex naval chief Centcom] -its vietnam all over
again
To quote Colin Powell - "don't go in there if you don't know how to get
out of there"
To quote Bill Clinton - "I wish I had taken out Saddam Hussein -but
then its a tough neighbourhood"

I don't disagree. Or, if you like, then I agree. For all the year before
the war started I thought it was a bad idea and a stupid idea and I would
have bet all of my money that there would never be found any WMD.

and to quote Labour MPs in Britain as quoted on NDTV India - "its a
political blunder"

I don't like Tony Blair, either.

Its actually not much different from rednecks categorizing
their competition in India as incompetent so that they can retain high
paying jobs. The bad news for such people is that their vote doesn't
count as much as evidence does.

I've read a lot of the "hate" posts over on a.c.c over the last few years,
myself. First, you need to understand that when you have anything taken
away from a person (their job, career, a theft, we even have crime in the
USA where a wife or husband gets killed somehow), then that person is
going to be mad. I, myself, am mad about a few things in life. Second,

Fine. But have you made any effort to understand that wealth doesn't
originate in the US

You are wrong about that. Maybe someday the USD will be worthless. Unless
we have some weird crisis (which is possible), the USA may decline but it
will be over decade time scales and not this year or next year. I will bet
money with you about this.

No -understand what I am saying. The world may well love your currency,
and your govt may well do a v good job of manipulating currencies by
teaming up with traders and committing all kinds of white collar
crimes. But in the end, money is just a means to transact in wealth.
Its value is appreciated by naive humans and increasing the supply or
purchasing power of the USD does not lead to an increase in the supply
of trade-able goods/services -just the means to transact in it.
If every individual outside the US can do as good a job as americans
can, then their purchasing power will rise to that of americans. But
that doesn't bring with it a rise in the supply of trade-able goods
like oil, gold,. food etc That will trigger inflation as everyone races
to the top to maintain an ecologically and financially unsustaiinable
std of living. The reason why the US federal reserve has inflation
targeting as its policy is because they increased ,money supply to such
an extent that lots of people have cash in their hands and when they
all rush to buy the same goods/services -it creates inflation. If they
tame inflation -it means money supply has come under control.

and the bill of rights doesn't guarantee one a job,
a dream house etc..?

And, why isn't it fair for me to ask you to understand our tax system and
our system of social programs that really do guarantee economic rights to
people (medicare, medicaid, social security, UE, and many others)? And,

every social program has to be funded by somebody and more often than
not, it is funded by the taxpayer. If you berlieve me for a moment,
that there is no fountain of wealth to provide every individual with
all good things in life simply because the concerned individual is an
american citizen -you will realize that consumption will have to be
matched by productivity or import of goodies will have to be mached by
export of something precious too.

why isn't it possible for you to understand that many people in high
places in the US are concerned to stimulate our economy when UE is high
without guaranteeing jobs? And, why isn't it fair to ask for job security
when one is competant and productive and does everything the boss says.
And, then the boss betrays the worker mainly to just make more money for
himself.


if a person is competent and productive and also cost-efficient, then
every company with the ability to retain manpower and sufficient work
to be delegated to them -will retain them. Look at the number of
americans claiming jobs belong to them by way of citizenship, or
because the US army protects their business interests. That is an
indication that they are not competitively priced and don'[t aspire to
be so. Look at all fo those H1Bs. illegals etc.. None of them claims
the employer owes them a job and yet they can retain their jobs simply
because their services are competitively priced.

I've read a lot of posts authored by Indians who have no hesitation to
taunt and tease all these US guys who lost their jobs and are mad; those
Indians are not helping the situation, either. They are making it worse.


well -I wouldn't jeer on anyone who has lost his job. But I would say
it is incumbent on the worker to price his services competitively.

You can't do that in an economy where the worker can't get his landlord,
tax department, grocery store, gas station, etc., to lower their prices
downward either.

it can be done -by way of a downward spiral in wages, followed by a
downward spiral in rent. Taxes are a percentage of compensation. If you
take a 50% cut to fend off -offshoring, it will lead to a 50% decrease
in taxes paid.

Who
on earth is forcing americans to live the kind of life they do and
price themselves out of the competition?

Our society evolved mainly on its own over the last 50-100 years. Nobody,
no god in heaven, no aliens from another planet gave us cars, houses,
electricity, nothing. Not the Europeans, not the Japanese.
The US economy had fits of growht and collapses like a gold strike in
the sierra nevada, the rail roads followed by the great depression, WW
II which lead to the forming of a huge military industrial complex that
sucked in lots of unemployed people etc.. to supply armaments to the
rest of the world, and then some other good times where the economy
grew in terms of how many goods/services like coal, steel etc were
produced and exported.
Only since 1970
did we start having problems and there are lots of people who think these
problems are not even problems. Me, I am not sure. I'm telling you I read
articles all the time that say either we have big problems or they say we
don't have big problems. I am having a big problem deciding which story is
true. I have the tentative notion that both stories have problems.

Afrer Vietnam, it has been mostly a downward movement. There is no gold
to finance your splurhe, california oranges and washington apples can
be bought by humble 3rd world consumers in India off the street vendor.
American lumber has a tough time competing in the world market and can
survive with protectionism etc.. If there is a problem, it is mostly
with your consumption i.e std of living -nbut not with fundamentals as
such. If you adjust your std of living, other things will fall in
place. It would mean working for 3rd world wages and living a lifestyle
similar to ours -and when that happensm your deficit will come down and
american workers will experience greater job security coz their
services are competitively priced.

I blame both the US CEOs and I also blame the India lobby, just like there
are lobbys all over the world, trying to get business, money, military
aid, or some other favor or deed from the USA just because we are big,
have money, and sometimes fight some wars for good reasons (eg. WWII and
Kuwait). So, don't look at all of life as if India is nothing but heaven

Have you forgotten that money != wealth? Your govt prints money to
transact in wealth (goods/services). It doesn't generate infinite
amounts of goods/services from a fountain to help everybody live the
american dream. Increasing money supply does not lead to an increase in
wealth -just the amt of paper to transact in wealth.

No, you still have to think about fractional reserve banking, AND you have
to think about stock. You give money, say 10,000 Rs, to an Indian company
and they give you a piece of paper for the 10,000 Rs. Now that company has
your 10,000 Rs and you have paper that, on the day you got it, worth
10,000 Rs. Now, that is just like your Indian company and you, together,
just created 10,000 plus 10,000 Rs of assetts, or 20,000 Rs of assets.
Now, that is just like fractional reserve banking. A growing economy will
"feed itself" and grow faster just becaue it is growing. You need to think

it will feed itself more money -but that money doesn't yield more food
grains, more oil, more gold etc. You don;t even need fractional reserve
banking aka a low CRR to increase money supply. The govt just needs to
press a button in the mint and a ton of money will be made available
for distribution to the citizenry. If money were wealth -nobody would
have to locate a job. Just tell the head of state -make sure you send a
wad of currency notes to every citizen's house else you will lose your
job.

about this a lot. I got this from the book by Griffin that I thought was
the most significant book I've read in 10-20 years. Not that I agreed with
everything the guy said, but I can honestly feel like I learned some
significant things.

and the USA is nothing but hell. I have read a few books on economics and
one on globalization by a guy who is _for_ globalization but he is an old
guy who studied it all his life and he's not sure it will work. Now, I am
reading about a backlash in China: many people there are now protesting
the selling of Chinese companies to foreigners (just like in the US, some
people did not want to sell an oil company to China, or a port
administration to Dubai). And, there are going to be more people who lose
their jobs and businesses in the USA. And, a lot of Chinese farmers are
not happy with everything in China, either.


Globalization is like tectonic plates shaking and merging togeher to
form a single landmass. Initially, there will be massive upheaval -and
then gradually the dust settles down. The US witnessed social upheavals
when it started free trade with Japan, Germany, S Korea etc.. but those
upheavals didn't last forever.

But there are still residual problems.

its just started and may take 20 yrs for inflation to catch up in
India, china etc. so that costs even out or until your govt opts for a
change in monetary policy.

Even if, say, it was
possible to take pictures of the landing sites with a telescope, they're
bound to claim that it was faked.


*they* doesn't necessary include me. I have dealt with cameras
sufficiently to know that a remote timed shot is v difficult to explain
-but if it can be taken by a person, that would be easier to explain.

I have dealt with cameras, too. To me, its not a big deal.


Sure? I know some pros who would sweat to take a moon shot with an SLR
camera today. I doubt if those astronauts that went up there knew much
about aperture, illumination etc.. and even if they did manage it, they
wouldn;t be in a mood to say cheese to the camera.

Fine, I will let you, and the pros that you know, join together and hold
hands with each other, and say "we all think this is too hard to do and
therefore the moon shot is fake" because I'm tired of telling you that I
don't think it is a big deal.

Does the technology to take a shot by a telescope from earth of 2 men
on the moon exist or existed then? I doubt it.

In my opinion, based on telescope resolution and atmospheric disturband,
there could not be enough resolution to take pictures from the earth of 2
guys on the moon.

so that means the pic had to be taken from the moon itself. I have an
antiquated yashica camera at home and don't think it would have yielded
such good pics.

Long ago, I measured resolution in some Pentax 35 mm Takumar telephoto
lenses. I got 90 to 110 lines per millimeter, which is pretty good for
a lens for consumers costing about $100-150 in 1960s dollars. Today, not
much more because production costs probably went down but I have not
checked.

Does your Yashica have a glass lens or plastic? Lots of cheap polaroid (I
have one) have plastic lenses (they would deform maybe at 250 degrees) and
I'm happy if I can recognize the people in these fuzzy pics I get.

its original with a Barun flash.


regards
-kamal

.

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