Re: Where does Art get his numbers?



On Wed, 17 May 2006, Threeducks wrote:

Straydog wrote:


On Wed, 17 May 2006, phdcareerclinic wrote:

There are pet-sitters that earn 6 figures.

There are engineer contractors who earn twice as much as salaried
contractors.

Numbers quoted and published may reflect an average. I can believe that
there are truck drivers who can earn $80K a year. They may not be the
norm, but they may not be in the minority either.



Yeah, and I've gone over all this many many times in the last 5-6 years.

The electrician that wired my retirement home works out of his house (no overhead, no boss "cut," no other costs except his truck) and he charges $60-65 an hour. I talked with other guys who hired work, knew the guy worked out of his house, and how much was the job and how many hours did the guy work on the job. Its simple arithmetic.

I gave the figure for doing a siding job on my house, the skylight job, etc. All real figures. Do the arithmetic. $50-100/hour minus the costs of the truck and if the guy wants to pay his insurances out of that $50-100, its his choice or put the money in the bank.

Anyone who works for a company, with an office, support staff, boss, manager, owner, etc.,...all taking their "cut" is going to make 1/3 or less of what "the company" charges.

We've got solo lawyers here in my town who work out of their houses and charge full list rates against lawyers working for bigger firms with branch offices in every local town (3-4 lawyers per office, 2-3 paralegals) who charge the same full list rates ($175/hour) and probably get $50-60/hour on a salary. The guys who work out of their houses are making out like bandits.

Fine, I don't measure people's lives by the money they make. There is a fun side, a professional satisfaction side. But, you also can't throw out the practical and dark sides of careers. So, when a guy asks what can be a better BS degree than ChE with a starting salary of $60,000, I'm going to make my comparison with much broader job ranges that more people can get into and make as much or more.

Can, but on average do they?

"Can...on average...they" get a ChE? Throw some calculus equations at the average HS grad and tell the guy "Hey, get this great ChE job, pays 60,000, but you have to work with this stuff [point to equations, need to get an A average in math]"? How many kids can do those guyrations?


I've had "professional" tree trimmers come out twice now. Cut a tree down (65 feet high), and just cut it into pieces. Number of guys on the job: three. Time on job: one hour. Cost: $375. Do the arithmetic. Cost of doing the business: one truck, wear and tear on chain saws, plus a bucks worth of gas. You can can rent a truck for $50/hour.

So if these jobs are so great, why do we have "working poor",

1. They don't know any better.
2. They can't do anything except work behind a cash register at a convenience store.
3. They don't try
4. If they did, the supply of services would be swamped and the tree guys would be charging $10/hour instead of $50.

people flocking
to work for 1st world sweatshops like Wal-Mart, millions on welfare, etc. If it's really so easy to get and keep these great jobs, what's to problem?

See above. Is a ChE easy?

What kind of house do these guys live in, what kind of car do they drive? What kind of medical and/or retirement plan do they have?

I had a long conversation with the guy, and his assistant who was my mover. You know, truck, and move furniture. Load the truck at location A, drive, unload at location B. He gave me his home address. His house was in a MORE expensive neigborhood and bigger than mine. Same numbers. I know what I paid him for him and his assistant (something like $1100) for seven hours of work. He worked out of his house, said he owned the truck and cost him like $2000 in repairs per year. And, he's booked up solid 5+ days per week. You do the numbers.


I want to know where these guys get off on the theme that since BLS and surveys show all the crapworks pay $12-15/hour, therefore that is where people should look ONLY for the crapwork jobs. And, then they brag about their $90,000 faculty jobs.


You've lost me here. Maybe that is how you take it when someone doesn't bitch about failing at something, but stating that I have a certain job and a certain salary isn't bragging in my mind.

Well, you were the one who was puffing up how your students were gettingjob offers of $60K, and your own, what was it, $90K, as if the only way to get this is follow in footsteps like your own?

I'm waiting for you to explain what happens to the majority of guys, not you with your tenure-guarantee, don't-have-to-worry-about-grants, and not a chance for department politics problems, and they-will-never-offshore my teaching job to India, but what is across a broader swath of PhD jobs that are not even tenure track. Go look up the adjunct situations, too.


.

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