Re: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet?



On Sat, 13 May 2006, Kamal R. Prasad wrote:


Straydog wrote:
On Sat, 13 May 2006, Kamal R. Prasad wrote:


Smith Rhoade wrote:
"Kamal R. Prasad" <kamalp@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1147413105.525440.196130@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[snip]
And where in the world did you Kamal get the idea that most New Yorkers
think it was "an inside job."

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041101130426916
http://www.crisispapers.org/essays/25-things.htm

The German spy chief has also gone on record to say that the CIA was
too smart to let that happen accidentally.

The CIA is a big pile of incompetants.

They aren't. They have had numerous successes in whatever stuff they do

Oh, yeah? Name some. Oh, they were successful sometimes at undermining foreign governments (read Rose and Wise's book "The Invisible Government" circa 1960s, and many other exposes, not to mention that big British expose' that Margaret Thatcher tried to have banned in England about MI-5, MI-6, which were also a bunch of incompetants that spent all day figureout out where the Russian agents were in London and England and the Russian agents were spending all day trying to lose the British agents. Result: no spy work was actually ever accomplished; I did read the book).

[and a few failures like the bay of pigs].

They also failed to get US companies to make defective versions of stuff like motor oil and ball bearings that were to be shipped to Cuba for the purpose of gumming up (read: sabotage) all of Cuba's machinery. Yes, it leaked out.

Furthermore, there is a hysterical group of people who favor extensive conspiracy
theories in which the conspiracy creators have perfect success rates. I highly doubt it.


You can skip the hysteria and look at the evidence instead. You should
see the link of conspiracy theory.org about United Flight 93. There was
not a single drop of blood where the flight crashed (and that stunned
the coroner). "Lets roll" was heard over the cellphone -but at 35,000
ft -cellphones don't work.

Fine, you can dig up all that has been written about JFK and its so confused you can't tell much of anything. How much of history is inaccurate? Quite a bit.

The Apollo mission (claimed to have) landed on the moon in 1968 and no
such landings have happened ever since. Can they do it once more after
40+ yrs of technological advancement? Not -if the original one never
took place.

You've mentioned this before and its clearly an anti-American viewpoint trumped up by a "flat earth" mindset. There are still people who believe in witches, demons, and the tooth fairy. But, I read where in 2008 India is planning on an unmanned landing on the moon; But then I suppose if India claims success on this project, then you will "believe in" India at the same time you will doubt, or caste doubt upon, the USA's past accomplishments.

Don't tell, I don't want to know which Mid
Eastern rag or broadcast media you follow.


All of these links are from within the US, and every poll conducted to
date has been done by US-based organizations and surveyed mostly
US-born (white) citizens and not mid-eastern emigrees.

And, if we go into India do you think there is a homogeneous population
where everone agrees with whatever comes out in your media? I think not.


Isn't that besides the point? The media in the US is owned by big
business and they report everything as the govt wants them to.

According to Roy, one of your own (Indian) people, your own media is highly manipulated by not only your own government but your own media
itself. You have failed to acknowledge and address this critique of your own country despite my posting the review many times now. And here is the book, again:

--------
India: Government Brutality, Injustice, and
Questionable Democracy.

A sellection of quotes from the book "An Ordinary
Person's Guide to Empire" by Arundhati Roy (the
author of The God of Small Things, on the NYT best
seller list for 49 weeks, and she lives in New
Delhi); ISBN 0896087271, c 2004.

Parts of the book criticise US foreign policy, and
other parts criticise Indian foreign and domestic
policy. All of the chapters were originally given
as speeches or were published as articles in major
printed media. The book contains hundreds of
sources for details about which statements were
made. The book gives substantial detail about the
internal political and social components of modern
India and India's problems and changes while
undergoing modernisation. At one point the author
identifies fascist themes in some government
policy and especially in connection with
globalization. The book is easy to read and
contains a great deal of informatin about the
political situation in India, today. If you are a
corporate goon-parasite, then all this doesn't
matter. If you care about democracy, ethics,
morals, and people, then read on.

Quotes:

page 12
"According to the State, when victims refuse to be
victims, they become terrorists and are dealt with
as such. They're either killed or arrested under
POTA (Prevention of Terrorism Act). In states like
Orissa, Bihar, and Jharkhand, which are rich in
mineral resources and, therefore, vulneralble to
ruthless corporations on the hunt, hundreds of
villagers, including minors, have been arrested
under POTA and are being held in jail without
trial. Some states have special police battalions
for 'anti-development' activity. This is quite
apart from the other use that POTA is being put
to--terrorizing Muslims, particularly in states
like Jammu and Kashmir and Gujarat. The space for
genuine nonviolent civil disobediance is
atrophying. In the era of corporate globalization,
poverty is a crime, and protesting against further
impoverishment is terrorism. In teh era of the War
on Terror, poverty is being slyly conflated with
terrorism." I have sellected just a few passages
to show the message that this book offers and that
it is important to everyone, not just India or
Indians.

***
page 13:
"Vast parts of the country are already more or
less beyond the control of the Indian state--
Kashmir, the North East, large parts of Madhya
Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Jharkhand."
***
"The real issue is that the privatization of
essential infrastructure is essentially
undemocratic. The real issue is the towering mass
of incriminating evidence against big dams. The
real issue is the fact that over the last fifty
years in India alone big dams have displaced more
than 33 million people.... The real issue is the
fact that the Supreme Court of India ordered the
construction of the Sardar Sarovar Dam to proceed
even though it is aware that it violates the
fundamental rights to life and livelihood of the
citizens of India."

I should point out that dam construction and other
Army Corps of Engineer projects in the USA have
been seriously criticised by environmentalists in
the USA at least as far back as 50 years ago. Many
dam construction projects in the USA have been
declared failures and Jared Diamond, in his book
"Collapse" mentioned at least one US dam that was
blown up to restore water flows back to their
original nature without loss of non-existent
benefits but with the restoration of the fishing
industry in the area.

page 45:
"Never mind that forty years ago, the CIA, under
President John F. Kennedy, orchestrated a regime
change in Baghdad. In 1963, after a succesful
coup, the Ba'ath party came to power in Iraq.
Using lists provided by the CIA, the new Ba'ath
regime systematically eliminated hundreds of
doctors, teachers, lawyers, and political figures
known to be leftists [reference given]. An entire
intellectual community was slaughtered. (The same
technique was used to massacre hundreds of
thousands of people in Indonesia and East
Timor.[reference given])....In 1980...[the US
said] 'We see no fundamental incompatibility of
interests between the United States and Iraq
[reference given].'"

page 55: "In South Africa, after three hundred years of
brutal domination of the black majority by a white
minority through colonialism and apartheid, a
nonracial, multi-party democracy came to power in
1994. It was a phenomenal acheivement. Within two
years of coming to power, the African National
Congress had genuflected with no caveats to the
Market God. Its massive program of structural
adjustment, privatization, and liberalization has
only increased the hideous disparities between the
rich and the poor. Official unemployment among
blacks has increased from forty percent to fifty
percent since the end of Apartheid [reference
given]. The corporatization of basic services--
electricity, water, and housing--has meant that
ten million South Africans, almost a quarter of
the population, have been disconnected from water
and electricity [reference given]."

Now how does propaganda work?

page 57:
"...Clear Channel Communications is the largest
radio station owner in the country. It runs more
than twelve hundred channels, which together
account for nine percent fo the market [reference
given]. When hundreds of thousands of American
citizens took to the streets to protest against
the war on Iraq, Clear Channel orgaized pro-war
patriotic "Rallies for America" across the country
[reference given]. It used its radio stations to
advertise the events and then sent correspondents
to cover them as though they were breaking news."

It should be noted that consolidation in the
broadcast radio and TV business continues, today.
Same for the book publishing business. Soon, only
a few entities will control all media.

page 71:

This deals with Hindu nationalism. Many passages
in the book talk about this with parallels with
the development of Nazi power in Germany in the
1930s.

"On August 15, 2003, Independence Day he [Cheif
Minister of Gujarat, Narendra Modi] hoisted the
Indian flag before thousands of cheering people.
In a gesture of menacing symbolism, he wore the
black RSS cap--which proclaims him as a member of
the Hindu nationalist guild that has not been shy
of admiring Hitler and his methods [reference
given]."

"One hundred and thirty million Muslims--not to
mention the other minorities, Dalits, Christians,
Sikhs, Adivasis--live in India under the shaddow
of Hindu nationalism."

page 85:

Additional text documenting thousands of people
killed and hundreds of thousands of people
displaced by Indian police.

page 91:

"Gandhi's Salt March was not just political
theater. When, in a simple act of defiance,
thousands of Indians marched to the sea and made
their own salt, they broke the salt tax laws."

page 97:

"The U.S. government used the lies and
disinformation generated around the September 11
attacks to invade no just one country, but two....
The Indian government uses the same strategy not
with other countries, but against its own people.
Over the last decade the number of people who have
been killed by the police and security forces runs
into the thousands. Recently several Bombay
poliemen spoke openly to the press about how many
'gangsters' they had eliminated on 'orders' fromt
ehir senior officers [reference given]. Andhra
Pradesh chalks up an average of about two hundred
'extremists' in 'encounter' deaths a year
[reference given]. In Kashmir in a situation that
almost amounts to war, an estimated eighty
thousand people have been killed since 1989.
Thousands have simply 'disappeared' [reference
given]. According to the records of the
Association of Parents of Disappeared People
(APDP), more than three thousand people were
killed in 1003, of whic four hundred and sixty-
three were soldier [reference given]."

The text goes on to say things are getting worse.

page 102:

"Fourty-seven percent of India's children below
three suffer from malnutrition, forty-six percent
are stunted [reference given]."

page 103:
"Today, an average rural family eats about one
hundred killograms [about 220 lbs.]less food in a
year than it did in the early 1990s [refernce
given]."

"But in urban India, wherever you go--shops,
restaurants, railway stations, airports...--you
have TV monitors in which election promises have
already come true. India's Shining, Feeling Good."

page 104:

The thing that is happening is that much
infrastructure (eg. water supplies, electricity,
transport, telecommunications, health services,
education, etc, that the government was "supposed
to hold in trust for the people it represents,
assets that have been built and maintained with
public money over decades--are sold by the state
to private corporations." Guess where that leads?

The book ends with a short glossary of terms,
names, etc., that define or explain political
parties, important people, important historical
events, and a long list of information sources (21
pages), and an index.

If you want to see how globalization is affecting
the so-called "developing countries" this is one
good book to start with.

--------
I am
saying that independent polls confirm serious doubts amongst US-born
americans themselves on whether govt was totally unaware of the
attacks.

You can twist around the facts that our FBI, which I would not hold in the best of light either, had some data on their desks which, if looked at properly (rather than submerged by bureaucratic power and ego moves), might have indicated that something was going to happen.

I won't characterize you and your posts and views, because this is a public
forum.

doesn't matter if you do.

Matters to me.

but not to me:-).

Yeah, it does otherwise you wouldn't be continuing to attack everything US and pump up everything Indian.

regards
-kamal


.

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