Re: US defense labs full of foreign-born scientists?



On Mon, 7 May 2006, Kamal R. Prasad wrote:


Straydog wrote:
On Sun, 7 May 2006, Kamal R. Prasad wrote:


Straydog wrote:
On Sun, 7 May 2006, Kamal R. Prasad wrote:


Straydog wrote:
On Sat, 6 May 2006, rrc wrote:

Straydog wrote:
On Sat, 6 May 2006, Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
Slavery doesn't
require nets to snare them and whips to ensure the work gets done. The
inflated currency your govt prints attracts slaves from across the
world.

Yeah, they all keep coming from everywhere, and most of them stay, and
they get jobs and get things they can't get from home, and lots of them
even send 5-10% of their pay back home because their home country can't
make jobs for them.

And this is the whole point; he acts as if it's the Amistad days and
that there are legal indentured servants and slaves in this country.
All visitors are free to leave and to send money around with world.
Slaves, who move on their own, aren't slaves but migrants.

If you cannot answer the questions I have asked -it indicates a hidden
agenda.

What questions have you asked that we did not answer (or answer to your
satisfaction)?

Penty of them on this thread, 2 of which are:-

-if you don't like foreigners, why do you invite them to your country?
^^^^ ^^^

There are two different "yous" in this sentence. The first "you" are all
the guys who got laid off and their careers ended right after they trained
their replacement and the guys who got laid off because their whole job
got exported. And, I am not one of the first "yous." The second "you" is
not me, either, because that "you" is all the CEOs and executives who want

There are individuals besides the ones who lose their job and the ones
who pay for those jobs.

You still directed your "yous" at me. You should direct those to the appropriate people and not blame ME as if I am one of the "yous."

to cut labor costs, immediately, and for the most part absorb the savings
into their own paychecks and not to pass on savings to the customers of
the company. And, I am not one of those CEOs or executives, and I have

No -american consumers benefit greatly from slavery.

You still have it wrong. I'm not going to repeat the explanation. It just goes in one of your ears or eyes and out the other.

Just do a
back-of-the-envelope calculation of what your chicken might cost if you
remove the illegal doing the processing and replace him with an
american earning one of those american-dream salaries.

I can tell you it would be trivial. But, economies of scale give the CEOs a lot.

Same holds true
for many industries and many types of workers on restricted rights .

We have more laws, contracts, obligations, rules, restrictions, taxes, fees, and impositions by private industry and very few freedoms (from our
government and political system) in the USA. A lot of exploitation, very little slavery (trafficking of humans) and the difference between US born, green cards, and H1-B etc not as much as you like to think.

given you this answer, maybe more in different pieces, but you never asked
the question like that.

I did -but that rectal stem wouldn't answer. He replied to your reply
to my post.

I disagree.

-(for you) is there anything that entitles americans to higher paying
jobs?

Same answer as you give for why you, as you are entitled to favored
treatment in your society as a higher caste member with high priviledges.


you need to answer the question instead of pointing to something else
-like 3000 yrs of exploitation of dalits as a justification.

The 3000 years multiplied by the number of people is far worse.

That said, the law does not provide any special priveleges to
individuals on the basis of caste.

Its in your culture. Pratap explained that very well.

The reason why they are talking of
the past is because they cannot find problems in the present.

Not according to Pratap.

And, I have asked you this sentence in question form and the best you have
answered is in the context of your "affirmative action" laws and you said
there would be bloodshed. Now, if you don't like my answer, which is a

there would be bloodshed because upper caste people do not want to be
marginalized on the basis of their caste.


And, that bloodshed would mean they are unhappy with losing their birthright high priviledges to low caste Indians. And, you want to know why US people are unhappy to lose thier jobs to Indians?

That is different from them
wanting to retain the caste hierarchy.

Oh, I disagree.

Affirmative action in the Indian
context is about providing freebies to fix historical disparities
-which is different from removing disparities in the present.

Oh, you like to use different words at the end of the sentence to describe the same problem as in the beginning of the sentence.

The
former will run into rough weather because the upper caste are just
upper in name -and not necessarily in terms of wealth i.e. they too
have to struggle for a living. If you make life even more difficult for
them -they will resists that.

All the stories I hear are that the upper castes are much more well off...don't try to tell me that they are struggling. Its like telling me I should cry for Bill Gates just because he has to struggle with all his $billions of dollars obtained by a legalized illegal monopoly.


parallel to why you are entitled to high caste priviledges and you will
have to tell me why your are entitled to them. After all, you said there
would be bloodshed over Indian "affirmative action" or do you want to
explain why Indian "affirmative action" is unfair (especially if it
preserves priviledges for you and/or denies priviledges to, for example,
the Dalits).

see above.

-do foreigners get any assurances from employers because of which
americans do not want the hardships associated with those jobs?

I don't understand this question. Assurances for what? Because what? If
this is foreigners take jobs more dirty and pay less, then, fine, they are

he said he would still have been an engr and the country would not have
had to import engineers if he had been given assurances his pay won't
be cut, the job will remain etc..

You edited out my further comments. And, that is dishonest of you.

free to learn our language, get better education, take a bath more often,
and apply for nicer jobs that pay more. Otherwise, they can go back to
where they came from. Even your Dalits don't even get as good a deal as we
give foreigners.


And, you had no comment on this!


Well, I'm thinking now that he had a bad experience with his H-1b job here
and it pissed him off so much that he became mad at anything to do with
the USA. Then, there are a lot of people in the world that don't like the
USA for a lot of reasons that, if we were in their shoes, we'd feel the
same way.

No -I am not wishing you dead. But I want people who read this NG to be
aware that US govt

Only the US govt? Again, you are out of touch with historial facts. You
blame (only) the US govt for all the problems in the world. And, you
ignore very aggressive private-commercial money interests.

inside the US, it is mostly about big business and the US govt.

And, outside the US, it is mostly about other big business and the
governments of non-US countries.

yes

There are other predators elsewhre.

Yeah, like the whole rest of the world. Thank you for the very very weak
acknowledgement that we, in the USA, are not the only "bad guys" in the
world.

np

np, what?

is conniving to perpetuate slavery [It is not called
slavery, but for practical purposes it is -and more importantly paid
for by employers].

And, all through much of South America, there is plenty of efforts and
actions to "steal" invested assetts. The Indian Lobby is continuously
pandering our politicians for deals favorable to India. Russia--according
to Cheney--is now doing 'energy blackmail' and China has a pegged
currency. How come you don't recognize some of these _facts_?


Cheney is hardly a beacon of anything good. But I will agree that both
of these countries are to blame. I am not suggesting that your govt is
the only predator on earth. But I just want to point out their modus
operandii.

I already know this. I blame mostly our Big Business. BB has the money to
pay the politicians, BB's own lobbyists, BB's own lawyers, PR firms,
marketing, and even BB has its own spy network (called "business
intelligence"), and they will steal or do patent work-arounds, or anything
to make a buck AND if possible drive other companies out of business.
Welcome to capitalism. Nice for cars, airconditioning, and electronics,
and some jobs. Outside of that it can be vicious.

I want readers to know that every visa holder

Years ago, I even hired, myself some visa holders. Their names are on
publications I have. All but one who came are now either green cards or
citizens. One who did not become a green card or citizen got cancer and
died.


Your fairy tale is not in line with reality. US universities are a
recepient of huge amounts of slave labour on restricted rights.


Yes, they should come and do what they originally promised to do. But its not always the case. I know some that come and then just go work in restaurants, illegally, and get fake papers.

I even
read an american woman say her son was qualified -but the universities
are corrupted by grants which pay them to get work done -and the prof
would rather get a foreigner on F-1 visa than a local person with full
rights.

What do you want? To be treated like kings? You guys get treated better than you guys treat your own Dalits. You guys get treated as well as US guys except for minor stipulations in the visa conditions. None of the guys I had complained about this.


Of late, the F1 visa has become unattractive and so they are trying to
bring in an F-5 visa which provides a green card on completing the
degree [and also allows students to work outside the univ for 20 hrs or
so].

What is wrong with that?

and every
illegal is a victim of slavery.

The slavery of where they come from, because where they come from there is
zero opportunity. They are all free to go back.

All of these people in the US who look
down on these slaves -are also the same people who benefit from
slavery.

Just like India is benefiting from tons of US$ pouring in like a flood
into India, causing flowers to bloom all over India, floating many middle
class jobs in India, all at the expense of "slaves" over here who lost

don't change the topic.


Why not, you don't want to understand the proper use and definition of slave, And, you don't want to understand how all of this benefits India.

I told you before the US$ is not real wealth
-just promisory notes.

And, all kinds of commerce is going on and 99% of countries are happy to get US$.

In order for the entire world to be a parasite on you -the fountain of
wealth needs to exist somewhere in the US. The reality is that it
doesn't -and the only thing that can be of any help to you is farming.
You can nationalize all farmlands, drive out all immigrants and build
up an economy that is self-sufficient and insulated from the rest of
the world.

The reality is the whole world is growing cities, factories, jobs, everything on US$. You just refuse to face reality.


their "slavery" and now don't even get food from their "slaveholders". In
other words, now they are "Dalits in the USA."

I'd rather that he focus his anger on the specific company and
this specific business practice. However, maybe he learned a lesson: you
have to read the fine print in the contract and forget what people tell
you verbally. After all, I can cite all kinds of dirty, unethical, immoral
but legal things being done here, in the context of business, too.

He also needs to better appreciate that there isn't much going on in the
USA that doesn't go on everywhere and even back in deep history. Most of
the time there were few powerful-rich overlings who lived off a large
number of poor-disadvantaged underlings. And, during wars, the overlings
sat in cushy chairs and all the underlings gave blood, lives, suffered
losse, pain, etc. In some cases the winning overlings put the sword into
the losing overlings, but not that often.

yeah -my attitude doesn't presume that every american has the same
intent. Most of my statements are directed at the US govt and not at
the underlings.

And, why don't you recognize that much if not most of what our govt does
is because our MNCs (and we're not the only ones with MNCs by the way)
want our govt to "grease the wheels" for them.

yes -that is known to me, and I did not indicate anything to the
contrary.

OK

and educated people will abide by laws and so the legislation
permitting them to work on restricted rights comes into being.

This is called exploitation. They can quit any time they want and go back
and--guess what--most of them stay. I think this disproves your slavery
label. It is probably the real reason companies want H-1Bs; it cuts down
turnover and I know you have high turnover in IT jobs in India filled by
Indians who have no restrictions and its a problem because it is in our
media that this is happening.

H1-B is exploitation, however, if carried through to its final
condition, 5-7 yrs, it results in a green card. During that time
period, if someone wants to leave, one can.

no -one is not free to leave after landing. There are economic
handcuffs that prevent one from leaving.

Oh, its not a question of freedom. Its just a question of how much freedom
costs you. Only real slaves cannot under any circumstances quit their

no -if you can place people under restricted rights not leaqding to
death on violation -that fits my description of slavery.

Kamal, I've known a number of US people, born here, who sign contracts to
work in other countries. Mabye 20,000 US guys are working in Arab lands on
oil & construction jobs. Those contracts specify that they have a "tour of
duty" and they just can't quit any time they feel like it. They also have

Slavery can and might be enforced overseas depending on the cooperation
of the local govt. Contracts don't suffice to enslave.

Nobody came to India and put you in chains and dragged you to the USA to do something you had no interest in doing and told you you would be doing this with the chains on your hands and feet.

You need a
legal framework that facilitates the import of labour on restricted
rights to enforce slavery.

Its already there. And, if you don't read the fine print, its your fault. If you don't think about the restrictions, its your fault.

to behave in ways consistent with the culture they are in, so they have
behavior restrictions on them, too. Or, if they do quit, then they
they lose their "completion bonus". I had a Chinese student in my lab and
I was his PhD advisor and he finished the work. He went on a postdoc for
Upjohn, a major drug company. They offered him a job to build a plant in
China and he faxed me a copy of his contract and asked me what I thought
of it. I thought it was excellent, but it had high pay, a signing bonus
(thousands of dollars) and a completion bonus (worthe lots more thousands
of dollars). Yes, he could quit just like you could quit, and he, just
like you, would lose a lot of money.

there is more to it and the situation is not picture perfect as you
describe it.

You have no case, either.

Don't blame me if you don't read your contracts before you sign them and
don't blame me if you don't think about what you are getting into before
you sign the contract.

And btw -if
republicans were to have their way, they would have extracted more
juice from hispanics by classifying them as felons.

Doesn't matter, they can all be picked up at any time and deported.
Doesn't matter what category of crime it is. Its the law. They had a big
raid recently, and there are continuous captures and deportations all the
time. And, its official policy by Fox to tell them "Keep on trying" to get
into the USA (and send back money, too, which is a free ride for Mexico).

You need to re-read what I have written about how slavery is being
implemented.

You need to face the facts.

That way, employers
could call the cops and have them arrest anybody who is not doing a
good job. My pt is not that you should grant them citizenship. Rather,
if these people are not vital to the economy -just deny businessowners
the right to employ them. Without jobs, they will leave on their own.

Business owners don't care if they violate the law as long as they can
take money out of the pay of the employEE and put it into the wallet of
the employER.

you forgot the politican.

And, the Indian lobby.

jobs. Economic handcuffs? We all have them. We need money to buy food and
housing and pay taxes. We quit our jobs, and the money income stops. If
the money income stops, then we can't buy food (and starve), can't pay
rent (and get kicked out by the sherriff), can't pay taxes (and the state
will take away the house you "own"), can't pay car insurance (and the
state takes away your priviledge to drive a car). Or, you don't know about
this?

It is much worse than that for H1bs and even worse for B1/B2 visa
holders.
H1bs have to buy a car, furniture etc.. on arriving in the US. Having
done so, if they realize that this is a dead end job that is
essentially slavery till you earn your freedom -it is too late to
leave.

Fine, where do you get the idea that I think H-1B, etc., is great for the
foreigner? However, how did all the Indians who are living here as green
cards or citizens get here? You think they just put themselves in a big
wooden box and put postage on it and mailed themselves to some location,

re-read my post on how slavery is being implemented.

Think about what a slave really is, and while you are at it, what about all the child slavery that REALLY exists in India, today? REAL slavery.

then came out and got jobs here and have been here a long time? I get a
kick out of seeing Indians running liquor stores (we have 3-4 of them in
my neighborhood, all Indian), doughnut shops (lots of Indians),
convenience stores (about 30-40% in my neighborhood are Indian), and lots
of the motels I used in many recent years have Indians as managers. I
don't ask them what their visa is, but I ask how long they are here. I get
answers like 10-15 years. "So, do you like it here? Are you going to
stay?" They say "Yah, vee like et 'ere, vee gonna stay." Fine with me.

The employer will not reimburse them the relocation costs.

Sure, they want to keep you hungry and poor. What did you think? YOu were
going to be treated like George Bush? Nobody paid my relocation costs
except the US Army when they drafted me to serve two years.

If
this information is made available to them prior to entering the US,
they have a better chance at not getting enslaved/handcuffed.

And, they expect that if something is not in the contract that therefore
it will happen? Guess again? They are supposed to be smart enough to ask
questions.

For B1/B2 visa holders, the US employer places an order with a
bodyshop to send manpower [not excfeeding 3 mths coz of US customs
restrictions] and the bodyshop sends him to US and places him in an
extended stay lodge. The bodyshop is under no obligation to pay a
salary or hotel expenses. So, the bodyshop constrains the travel
expenses and forces employee to pay hotel bills and collect them later.
If the employee feels harassed and decides to quit, employer will
refuse to pay outstanding dues. So, he has to stay back and complete
the job satsifactorily -and only then return to India to collect back
dues. This is not a one-person issue but a standard mode of operation
for that visa type.

Do you think stuff like this only happens to foreigners? We have a large
collection of "employment agencies" that work for US people already here.
Do you think they pay anything more that hourly pay? Check the fine print.
Don't blame me.

The law facilitates all of this and it cannot do much to a person with
full legal rights.

The only people who have full legal rights are rich people. And, sometimes that is not enough.

Well, there is a whole population of immigration lawyers out there that
will charge these guys enough money to maybe get then a green card and
then it doesn't matter much.

no -lawyers and bodyshops are the small fish. the big fish are the
people to whom the manpower is deputed and of course the \govt that
facilitates slavery.

Just do a search on "immigration lawyers" you'll get plenty of hits.

As a matter of fact, ~100% of the Indians in a US AMA medical school
have either US citizenship or PR status and guess what... most of them
(with a few exceptions) want to do their residency here and continue to
work and live in America.

Oh, big deal, in my neighborhood here, half of the MDs anywhere, clinics,
hospitals, whatever, all have Indian-sounding names and have mostly medium
complexions and black hair. Even the women MDs from India. We got one MD
couple from Argentina. And, one MD with a Greek sounding name. And, we have
one black MD (I saw him a few times).

its a function of costs.

They are here. Period. I can look in the telephone book of 10 years ago
and this year's telephone book, they are still here.

The costs haven't changed and so the job to support them has been in
place for 10+ yrs and will remain for another 30 + yrs. The thing that
got them to the US and allows them to stay is their job -not the visa.

Rob, do you want to explain how Indian doctors get to be doctors in the
USA? Kamal says, what allows them to stay is their job, not the visa. But,
to stay requires they get the visa. Then you have to have the job (or
position) first. Then comes the visa which is what is going on with

The visa is the pre-requisite and if it weren't for the job, they
wouldn't be there in the US.
Something like necessary and sufficient condition.

You have to have the job. Even the guys I hired had to have job offers from me, first.

Indian IT guys. The guys who come as doctors _start_ on some kind of visa
and then go to green card or citizenship. As far as I know, this is the
case for anyone coming here. Even some guys I hired on visas, I wrote
petition letters for so they could get green cards. They are still here,
they don't need visas any more. What's the big deal?

KP again confuses this with Indians trying to
get a residency, without first attending an American medical school,
and then accusing the system of discriminating against Indians.

Well, he can't understand why laid off Americans don't like Indians
(especially the ones that got their jobs). Maybe he is a gentle person,

You are within your rights to like/dislike whosoverr you like.

Fine, you can call born-in-US guys lazyer that US guys who came here from
a foreign country, too. And, there is plenty of evidence that the reason
the US guys are getting laid off is that the foreign guys can be exploited
and you know this first hand. Maybe you should really be happy because
yes.

otherwise a lot of Indians (born there) would never have the experience of
working in the USA and I'll bet this even helps them get a job back in

they can get a job without studying/working in the USA.

I'll bet that it helps them. Most foreign scientists I knew told me that
some work in the USA always helped them get jobs or promotions when they
got back home. It even helps US guys get promotions and jobs if they have
some job for a time in foreign countries. US guys working in India as
managers have a better chance at promotions when they come back. Same deal
in Japan.


I know individuals who have taken over job functions from americans
without having visited//worked/studied in the US.

I hired guys who did not replace anyone and they never were in the USA before.

At the most, a
project lead will travel to the US to do a ToT and the rest of the team
will get its domain-specific info from the project lead If you were to
administer a truth drug to my ex-colleagues in the US, they would agree
that I couldn't have learnt anything from them.

Irrelevant.


India while the US programmer is now at Walmart and will be there for the
rest of his life.

they are free to apply for a programming job in India.

Why should they do that? Why would they want to go from Walmart pay in the
USA to Walmart pay in India?


coz they can do programming instead of a menial job and because the
Walmart pay in India affords them a middle class lifestyle similar to
the one they had before losing their job.

What is a menial job in one country compared to another? I would change my work before going to India.

The thing that
will finance their job is private equity which neither the govt nor the
public can veto [if the govt vetoes here -the employer will arrange for
a job elsewhere].

Ahhhh...back to "affirmative action" in India. You say the govt can't do

they cannot influence the working of private equity.

Our tax department is still here, been here, and is the proof that says what you say is untrue.

If they want to
provide affirmative action or reserve jobs for any set of individuals,
it will have to be at the expense of taxpayer money.

I'll leave that for India to figure out for India.

it? Sure sounds like they made a first step in India and you will see how
it works. And, "public vote"? Sure seems to me like a lot of Dalits might
come out and vote for an improvement in their lot. I will be watching

and the reason why they can come out and vote is because there is NO
apartheid for the past 50+ yrs.

Pratap says there is.

this, and maybe if you are still around here, I'll make some jokes about
India-with-blackeye over this. Then you have your Maoists controling 1/4
of India. We will see how that turns out. Kashmir, another "hot spot".

I don't find anything funny about it.

Well, you keep making jokes about your fantasy about reality in the USA. These jokes you make just make me laugh.


My pt
was that you shouldn't be taking help from someone you dislike.

When have _I_ said I dislike someone? When? I have ALWAYS criticised our
CEOs and executive. I _LOVE_ to hate these guys because THEY are the real
crooks and they get even way more money than they deserve. Or, when you
read these words that I write do you just close your eyes and brain?

I meant it is not a pt of contention whether some people in another
country like/dislike me.

Fine, you said above "you" and "you" and that is two different "yous" and
I'm not either one of them.

And, I never said I dislike India. What I _HAVE_ done is list a lot of big
problems and injustices in India just like you like to list a lot of big
problems in the USA (which many of us will agree with).

ok
When
you bring in people -they contribute to the economy.

What about the people who had the jobs before? You think they didn't
contribute to the economy? Not only that but all the money that went into
their paychecks went right back into OUR economy. Even the H-1Bs who

yes -but slaves tend to display higher levels of productivity.

Well that is not altogether true since offshoring has a high failure rate.

Slavery happens within the US

Child slavery is in Indian rug factories. Do a search on the WWW.

-and offshoring happens in India.

And, brings a lot of work and US money to India and most Indians, except you, just love it.

To
perpetuate slavery in India, you need a legal framework to facilitate
the same in India. Your laws don't apply here.

And, your culture is at odds with your new laws and your high caste Indians want to keep their priviledges.

What they might do is lower costs (but the quality is lower about half the
time, too). Its in my FAQ.

you should be asking companies when they plan to shutter their Indian
offices on account of that high failure rate coz I can only see
buildings/industrial campuses coming up, not being torn down.

What is happening is our companies don't care about quality any more, just cheap costs.

probably spent a lot of their paychecks here. All the money going into
paycheck of Indians in India end up going into YOUR economy and its a big
fraction of your 8% growth rate. YOU should be thankful that WE are
funding the improvement of the standard of living in India.


if you look back at the concept of wealth -you will understand that it
is not the case.
The reason why the Japanese and then the Chinese exchanged their dollar
bills for golf courses and mortgage is because the notes in themselves
are worthless -untll they can be encashed.

What a contradiction. Its like saying I have 50,000 gallons of dirty
worthless water and then when I go to buy a golf course, the guy says "but
you have 50,000 gallons of dirty worthless water" and I say "if you want
to sell, then I will buy, and these gallons of dirty worthless water will
instantly magically turn into valuable gold..." the guy says "yes, I'll
take the gold, we make deal" and then I say "...and as soon as you get to
the bank, the gold turns into 50,000 gallons of dirty worthless water" and
the guy says "Its OK, it turns back to gold again just at 'deal time' and
that's all that matters."

someone is going to have to educate you on US monetary policy.

Someone is going to have to get you to look out your windows and look at all the booming construction and educate you that most of it is because of US$ coming into India.

Do you have any more brilliant profound lectures to make about how money
works?

depends on whether you can understand any of it :-).

Nah, I din't think you had any more brilliant profound lectures. Just USA = slavery, no good, bad, and lazy.

Oh, yes, we have all kinds of big things being sold all the time and there
are billions and trillions of gallons of dirty worthless water flying all
over the world. Even less than that. There are little electronic pulses.
Billions and billions every second, flying around the world. You do or
don't know that do you?

When we encash the bills from exports -it reduces trade deficit of the
US and the existing deficit that you have is what you 'owe' us.

Isn't it wonderful how buildings in India, cars, electronics, salary and
paychecks, cellphones, etc., can just appear by magic out of thin air by
all this worthless dirty water? And, I hear there are credit cards in
India. More today than last month.

it needs to be backed up by tradeable goods/services.

Look and open your eyes: everyone in the world wants US$.

If you don';t like
Indians/hispanics etc.. just make sure you don't allow them to work in
the US.

I have nothing against Indians working in the USA. However, I have a lot
against when a US guy gets laid off and replaced by an H-1B. Even more
when a job gets offshored.

some people in the US dislike people of a different skin color.

There are Chinese that don't like Russians. There are Japanese that don't
like Chinese. The French and the English. The Irish and the English. The
Indians and the Pakistanis. Jews and Arabs. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,
etc.

They
are within their rights to do so and I am saying that -that being the
case, the very least they can do is to ensure they are not provided a
job in the US to have to contend with their obnoxious behaviour.

...etc, etc., etc., etc., etc.....

I do not work in the US and do not wish to go to the US -so pl
see to it that I get my SS contributions back.

Did you write letters to the SS? Our president? Your PM to get it for you?

many ex-H1bs have written to Indian ambassador to the US [currently
Ronen Sen] -but it hss not acquired traction. There is a legal
precedent that for citizens of Chile, the US govt refunds their SS
contributions to the govt in chile.

OK I wish you luck. Would it make _YOU_ happy if _I_ wrote a letter on
your behalf, too?

tell your govt to return SS contributions and not try any stunts to get
them back to the US.

YOUR SS problems are YOUR problem, not mine.

I have no problems with
how prosperoys american

Just a month ago you were complaining about how we're burning up 40% of
the worlds oil; have you been reading, finally, about how India (as well
as China) have the highest growth rates now in consumption of world energy

you are misunderstanding me. If your country is genuinely prosperous
because of increases in productivity/discovery of natural
resources/innovations that spin a lot of money etc. -that is fine with
me. My pt has been that your consumption is not driven by any of the
above -but is driven by an unsustainable manipulation of currency,

Got down to Wall Street and express this sentiment to them and see if they
care.

resources? How many years at 8% will it take India? To overcome the USA at
3%. And, with India at five times as many people? Not many years and YOU
will be, all by yourself, the greatest oil consumer.

yes - purchasing power in India is bound to shoot up regardless of
whether the US finances it with its fake money.

I'm beginnig to think, since the Rupee hasn't moved in any kind of trend,
that maybe its not going to happen. Fake money? I'll bet, too, that you

It is ALREADY happening. The fact that there is a lot of work up the
value chain is what should sustain the country's growth.

So, you think all of India's growth just comes out of thin air, huh?

If you have free housing and food over there, maybe I'll come.

regards
-kamal


.

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