Re: To SRC regulars....
- From: Russell.Martin@xxxxxxx
- Date: 1 Mar 2006 05:43:26 -0800
Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
Russell.Martin@xxxxxxx wrote:
Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
[snip]
that may not be because of tribal mentality. Have you observed that it
almost always costs more to hire a white/american than an Indian? It is
possible that mgmt has instructed him to hire Indians and that he has
been hired in the first place to facilitate that. I have come across
references to americans as greedy pigs who demand too much for their
services.
References? As in published in peer reviewed journals or
other scholarly works, perhaps "Journal of Greedy Pig
Research" (abbreviated by workers in the field as JGPR,
of course)? :-)
It is based on what I heard and not what I read. I have also
experienced first hand that it costs more to hire an american than to
hire an Indian on an H1b.
Ahh, but was it because the American was a greedy pig
or because the Indian was willing to work cheap and help
bring down the wages of all working people.
you can look at it either way.
Yes, one *can* look at anything anyway one wants, but the
point is is it a *valid* way to look at it?
My point was that if a company prefers
Indians and not americans -the reason is economic and not racial. Old
Pif's Indian manager doesn't have to be racially biased to hire Indians
only.
That's true, but OTOH is there any proof it isn't national
or cultural (I won't use racial because as I've pointed out
before, genetically we're all the same race)? I've been
reading a book, _The Design Inference_, about how one
formally sets up a system of reasoning about small
probability events. It applies here.
No matter what the calibre of the guy being hired -his Indian
counterpart on an h1b visa is bound to be cheaper by at least 20%.
But he shouldn't be, according to the law. He's supposed
to make the same amount. If he does then the playing field
is level and I have no problem with it. Otherwise we have
people suggesting that Americans (by extension me) are
greedy pigs for wanting to make the going local wage.
no -I have nothing against other people's financial plans.Hiring an Indian after he has acquired a
green card may not prove to be cheaper. You just need to look at any
company which hires americans and Indians. The pay is a lot higher and
working conditions a lot better for americans than for equivalently
qualified H1bs. No wonder mgmts love H1bs and americans hate it
equally. To give an example, for 2+ yr that I landed in the USA -I was
living with a roommate in a 1 bedroom apt -but an american might have
taken a single family home mortgage at about the same time.
And it might have been a good investment. Do you have
something against real estate as part of a balanced financial
plan?
you aren't understanding me.Their
living stds being a lot higher, their expectations are also bound to be
higher.
Perhaps you have cause and effect reversed, but again,
is it greedy to live in a house rather than live with a
roommate in a 1 bedroom apartment? I knew an econ
professor at a college near my alma mater who lived in
a chicken coop. I suppose we could all do that, but the
price of coops would go sky high due to the demand. :-)
I think I am.
Your country is one of the most prosperous
countries on earth and last I read -the richest democracy on earth. The
manpower in your country is so prohibitively priced that with that kind
of baggage -competing in a global market for goods/services is really
difficult for employers.
Yes, I did understand what you were saying, since
that's exactly what I thought you'd write next.
If you say that you deserve high paying jobs
-then you need to show productivity a lot more than workers overseas.
If you don't -then that is a burden on your employer when he tries to
fend off competition from overseas companies. And that explains why
they would refer to americans as greedy pigs they would rather not
employ.
But even if true, "greed' has little to do with that.
I grew up on the border line of poor in America, but my
family lived in a house. My mom and dad both worked
so we could have a house. My dad and grandfather
finished the second floor for bedrooms. They grew up
in rural areas during the Depression and knew how to
get by cheaply and do things for themselves. Maybe
that's why I do so many home repairs myself instead
of hiring a pro. I spent 5 years in grad school, lived in
a basement, and some months had a pound of rice
and a package of hot dogs to eat for the last week
of the month before pay day (sure, that's a week of
feasting for some refugee in the Sahel). I also spent
a year sharing an one bedroom studio apartment with
my sister (she slept on the sofa in the living/dining/
kitchen room). I worked hard in high school so I
this doesn't look like something that is in line with the lifestyle of
many IT workers in the USA.
OTOH it is in line with the lifestyle of many other IT
workers in the US. Not everyone got early stock
options with Microsoft.
FYI -IT wages are a lot higher than that of
other engg fields.
Been there, done that, didn't make much more money than
other jobs I've had, adjusted for inflation and experience.
could go to college. I earned a double major magna
cum laude and two graduate degrees so I could get a
decent job and earn a decent salary. That was the
"American Way". My wife also has two degrees and
board certification in a specialty. We both work in
order to afford what we have. We live in a house,
a nice but not grand, house. Yes, we had
"expectations" that if we got good educations and
worked hard we'd be able to buy a house. That's
what we were taught. Our parents did it with far less
education that we have. That makes me a greedy
pig? I thought that made me a rather typical person,
more fortunate than some in the abilities and
Many working class people in India have mortgages -and that isn't a
sign of being greedy.
Maybe your real estate market has gone through the roof to the pt that
no middle class person can afford it.
It has were I used to live. Here it isn't so bad, but in fact
the housing market in any place that can afford it has
gone upscale and that is a problem, IMO.
opportunities God gave me, but working to earn
my way and provide for my family. Thank you for
clarifying things for me. I will now go to my wallow
and roll in some mud. :-)
If you look at the world that exists outside the US -you will be able
to understand what I am saying.
Umm, I told you about relative ecological footprint of
Americans. The question is is that due to "greed"? I'm
still waiting for a viable plan to move the US to sustainable
development. Your subsistence farming idea is complete
bull, so that won't work. You need to consider this too,
because India is on the same, IMO wrong, development
path as the US. We have the excuse that we didn't know
better. India has seen the future and could choose to find
a better way before it is committed. Will it?
Salaries in the US are more and
productivity not so in RELATION to other countries.
That's your opinion.
If 300 million
people think that 5+ billion not-so-rich people are a drag on their
lifestyle and should be done away with -that is wishful thinking.
Oh please, give me a break. Nobody, certainly not me, has
said anything about doing away with 5 billion people, except
maybe you with your "everyone should go back to subsistence
farming" thread, which would cause mass starvation.
You
can only live in the world around you -and not re-construct it to your
liking.
Exactly the point I've tried to make to you.
BTW I just heard the W has a 50% approval rating in India,
while here he has a 34% rating. Since he's headed there,
why don't you keep him? Send us a minor league politician
in trade. :-)
Cheers,
Russell
.
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