Re: Business Week article on the Rise of Math


Straydog wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006, rrcolby@xxxxxx wrote:
>
> > Art, here's where I disconnect with the Indian melting pot vs the
> > Yankee one. For one, the Mughals were not a native South Indian

As I said before, native and immigrant are man-made rule of thumb.
According to you, you are native and the h1bs turned green card holders
are immigrants (they hold an immigrant visa). According to native
americans in the reservations, they are natives and and you are
immigrant. Then there are other tribes/races that were wiped out by
these "natives" when they crossed over from the Bering straits to the
americas. So if they were alive, these "native americans" would be
classified as immigrants. The same story applies to India and many
other countries.

> > culture, yet for the most part, they were ethnically similar to earlier
> > invaders like the Kushans. So race per se is not the issue here. This

Yes -both mughals and their predecessors were not much different from a
race pt of view. If there was/is ever a conflict, it was/is a culture
conflict between hindus and muslims like the one between catholics and
protestants or the one between serbs and bosnian muslims. Nobody owns
the land per-se by way of divine decree.


> > invading culture still exists in modern day Afghanistan and
> > Turkmenistan, two of the most backward nations in central Asia with
> > tribal warfare as oppose to a more modern ex-Soviet nation like
> > Kazakhstan.
>
> Don't forget religion.
yes -that is the basis of conflict.

>
> > Likewise, many of America's immigrants over the years had
> > adopted American culture
>
> I read where much of the recent Hispanic immigrant population is NOT
> melting in like all prior immigrant waves, however it may be too early to
> tell. One thing that is different today seems to be how schools and
> governments (i.e. local, state), seem to be bending over backwards to
> accomodate them with bilingual signs, telephone menu languages (everything
> is english/spanish), etc.
>
> However, if you consider all other immigrant peoples, then, yes, they all
> did melt fairly well (except the "new" poor black culture [sometimes
> called "rap"]) seems disconnected, but at least they speak english even if you
> or I can't recognize what they are talking about).
>
> and became American which is why his "WASP"
> > remark seems a bit dated; many self-identified caucasians in America
> > are a mix of western, central, and eastern European nationalities
> > including some from the middle east yet none of these countries had
> > physically conquered America.
>
I was referring to the attitude of this category of individuals, but
not to their racial origins.

> Well, if you consider that European whites did bulldozer "indians" (not to
> be confused with Indians) off their lands, then "we" did conquor America
> (and Spain/Portugal got dibs on all of Latin America, and creamed the
> Incas and other indigenous peoples). Not that I'm saying you--compared to
> Kamal--are wrong. Kamal is on substantially weaker grounds.
>

conquest is not a legal means of owning the land. Else, Iraq would be
yours and insurgency would be categorized by the world as a law and
order priblem.

> I think this distinction is important and
> > is the reason why his analogy doesn't hold.
>
> Well, there are a lot of things he doesn't know about.
>

if I do know something, it is to look at things with an open mind and
not to pass judgement about others.

> > Next, the Americans driving immigrants out are the KKK, not the
> > mainstream.
>
> And, a minority of Neo-Nazis, too.
>
many of those (storrn troopers) who supported Hitler did it because
they were v poor and he promised to bail them out of their misery by
taking away the wealth of jews and distributing it to the christian
poor. One doesn't have to be a white supremacist to concur with that
ideology and there is evidence that the ideology does show up during
bad times in the US.

> Again, he's attempting to stir up sectarianism (ala
> > flashback throughout India's history) when the reality of the situation
> > is that most Americans simply want to earn a living.
>
I don't deny that.

> ...and being denied that right, by Kamal's line of thinking, by our
> greedy-selfish CEOs (and our glorious Prez, etc.)

I have told you before nothing is holding you(americans) back from
retaining jobs/earning a living -if that is what you are looking for.
If your aims are much higher i.e. to sustain your current std of living
with an inflated currency - you need to put in the required extra
effort to do so i.e. if you want the employer to pay 5x Indian wages so
that you can splurge and live the american dream, you probably need to
convince him that you are a lot better than your Indian counterpart.
Being good enough or living in a country which has historically
contributed a lot to the field doesn't suffice. For all you know, the
CEO may well be a patriot. -but the money for paying you that "american
salary" comes from the company's pockets which is why the decisions
don't work out in your favour.

regards
-kamal

.

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