Re: Rising Above The Gathering Storm: Energizing and Employing America for a Brighter Economic Future


Threeducks wrote:
> Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
> > Threeducks wrote:
>
> >>Now you are backpedaling. Before your definition of "significant" was
> >>publication. Now it's not. So who is has the final word on what unique
> >
> >
> > well -my first definition of significant work was publication but it
> > was an emperical one and it presumed that if soimething can be
> > published in a major journal -it must be really a great idea. That
> > assumption turned out to be false -but it doesn't mean that Im
> > digressing from my statement that if americans themselves improve their
> > stds -they would be able to manage without bringing aboard foreign
> > talent.
> >
>
> Bringing in foreign grad students has nothing to do with the need for
> PhD holders by industry. It is the result of science and engineering
> departments requiring a source of labor and not getting enough US
> citizens to apply.
>
if you can show a career track beyond the phd -they might be willing
to apply. even science afficiandos desire to earna living.

> >
> >>is? Again, I wish to mention that often we don't recognize the
> >>importance of a paper until well after it has been published.
> >
> >
> > but is it hard to identify a genuinely novel idea from a run-of-the
> > mill? One researcher told me he came across a novel idea in relational
> > databases when doing his phd and he mutated that single idea into 4-5
> > papers so as to get maximum credit for the same. I don't know if
> > referring is ineffective -but if it isn't interesting to prospective
> > employers -then you do have a problem with the system on hand.
>
> Sit on a review panel for grants and you learn that what one person
> thinks is novel, someone else thinks is crap.
>
alright -you might know a lot more than me on evaluating ideas.

>
> >>Having "requisite skills" is never the problem. Graduate students in
> >
> >
> > well -if local students already have the requisite
> > skills/proficiency/talent -then why do you bring aboard foreign talent
> > and increase the dis-franchisement of locals by providing the best of
> > oppurtunities to foreigners??
>
> At the PhD level I haven't seen this. Foriegn students have a tough
> time landing jobs. What people are/were upset about is/was a flood of
> cheap programmers on H1-B visas.
>
well -that is the sterotype i.e that they are cheap and stupid. But
have you actually evaluated the skill levels of a reasonably larfge
sampling of H1bs to determine if that is correct? If there is anythign
that facts indicate -it is that the bulk of american IT workers have a
bleak future ahead of them. They just aren't prepared to handle the
competition -and that is where requisite skill levels matter a lot mroe
than getting a degree certificate.

> >
> >
> >>engineering and science don't pay any fees, and are, in fact, paid to go
> >>to school.
> >>
> >
> > but I know lots of grad students (mostly of Indian origin) who
> > accumulated huge loans as students.
>
> No one should pay to go to grad school in science or engineering. If
> they do, they are a fool.
>
for MS they do.

> > I also came across an american who
> > did his BS from UC davis and came to work in the indystry because he
> > had to repay his loans and couldn't afford to take on another one as
> > yet.
>
> BS is an undergraduate degree. One has to pay for that.
>
> >>The difficultly in getting visas has been a major deterent to all but
> >>the most serious of the foreign students.
> >>
> >
> > Im not aware if getting student visas are a significant problem for
> > Indians. The reason why foreign students aren't enrolling is because
> > after finishing grad school they need to get hold of jobs to repay the
> > loans and those aren't easy to find.
>
> They shouldn't have any loans if they are in a PhD program. If they are
> paying to get a PhD, they are fools.
>
> > They may be easier to find in
> > India -but an Indian job cannot suffice in paying off US tution fees.
> > Also, if anyway they have to work in India -why acquire US education?
> >
> <snip>
> >>Then why come to the US at all?
> >
> >
> > mostly to get a job in the US.
>
> But you said things in India were great. Why come to the US?
>
well -20 or 10 yrs back, there weren't many obs in hi tech sector in
India. Now there are -and so the enrollment to grad school in the US is
coming down. As the quality of work being sent to India increases -more
engrs will opt to do their post grad in India and enrollment will drop
even further.

regards
-kamal


> >I remember one hiring manager who
> > selected me -telling me that they recognize only my US experience and
> > not my Indian experience or graduate degree. And it isn't restricted
> > to engg alone. Even doctors who migrate to the US need to go through a
> > re-certification process that is more to do with vetting their
> > knowledge than with imparting new skills. Its something to do with
> > different education systems that aren;t universally accepted.
> >
> > regards
> > -kamal
> >

.

Relevant Pages
Loading