Re: Magnetic effects around electric currents and absurdities of modern physics
- From: Darwin123 <drosen0000@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:06:09 -0700 (PDT)
On Jun 30, 7:06 am, Szczepan Białek <sz.bia...@xxxxx> wrote:
"Benj" <bjac...@xxxxxxxxxxx>news:0a67fc05-d0ac-43ed-a804-834a67b43bc4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxI have not performed the experiment, nor even performed detailed
On Jun 29, 2:46 pm, "Bill Miller" <billmillerkt...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Teoretically " The magnetic fields do not cancel. They add."
But my question was: "Does the magnetic needle react strongly or some order
of magnitude smaller
in comparison with metallic conductor?
S*
calculations. However, here is some conjecture which I think may even
bear out.
First, assume there is an electrolytic solution where the ions
each have a magnitude of charge equivalent to 1 electron. That is, the
cations have a +q chage and the anions have a -q charge, where -q is
the charge of an electron. Assume that the electrolyte ions have a
mass 1024 times that of the electron. Compare it with a metal where
the carriers have a -q charge and a mass equivalent to that of the
electron. Each conductor is placed a large distance from the other. We
will compare measurements of the metal with the electrolytic solution.
Now, place each conductor in an electric field of fixed
magnitude. There are two electrodes of opposite charge, and the
voltage between them is constant. Use an ammeter in series with the
conductor to measure the current in amperes. Adjust this voltage
(i.e., the electric field) until the current measured is the same in
through conductors.
Place one compass next to each conductor. That is two compasses,
one next to the metal and one next to the electrolyte. What would
happen?
Without doing the experiment, I can state my very strong belief
that the effect on the compasses would be the same.
Why, you may ask, when the carriers have a different mass? The
reason is that I adjusted the currents to be the same. Sure, given the
same voltage difference more current would pass through the metal.
However, the voltages are not the same. We adjusted the voltage so the
current is the same in both conductors. The magnetic field in Maxwells
equations cares about current, not the voltages needed to maintain the
current.
So I conjecture that when Orsted did the experiment, he did not
adjust the two currents to be the same. He used the same voltage on
each sample. That is, he used a battery. A battery always has the same
voltage. He probably used the same distance.
Orsted didn't know Maxwell's equations. To examine the symmetry
that you guys are wondering about, you have to set the currents the
same. Not the voltages.
When reading an old experiment, or any experiment, you have to
pay close attention to the protocol.
Let us now go to another symmetry. Is the Hall effect the same
in both conductors.
Set up the same experiment as before, with the currents the same
longitudinal current in both conductors. Apply the same magnetic field
on both conductors. Measure the transverse magnetic field in both
conductors. This is what is called the Hall effect.
I conjecture that the transverse voltage will be smaller in the
electrolyte. This is because the negative carriers in the electrolyte
are 5000 times more massive than the electron carriers in the metal.
The magnetic field can't budge the electrolyte ions, or at least can't
move it like it can the light carriers in the metal.
We have already made the adjustment by making the currents the
same in both conductors. We can't normalize it. Orsted, using only a
battry, may very well have measured equal transverse voltages.
Yesterday, a scientist would try to equalize voltages. Today, he
is more likely to equalize currents.
The theory is always important in defining an experimental
protocol. When looking at the old experiments, one must realize that
the scientist was using a different theory. This does not mean he was
wrong, or you were wrong. However, the details of his experiment will
be different according to
.
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