Re: Magnetic Sheet Metal Fanner

Benj wrote:
On Mar 12, 2:27 am, "Vince Morgan" <vinharAtHereoptusnet.com.au>
wrote:

In the case of an electromagnet you can turn the field on and off, so that
raises a question that I am somewhat reluctant to ask, but I just have to
don't I.
If I were to put say a little pump (plastic:) between the sheets with a retu
rn spring inside it how would the work done then reflect back into the
electromagnet?

I think the case is too complex to apply Faraday or Lenz. The question
of work has to do with energy in and out of the magnetic fields. Say
you had one of those "pallet" type fanning devices. If the sheets are
lifted up you might ask where the energy comes from. Well, it comes
from (and goes into) the magnetic fields of the fanners. As you flap
the sheets onto the pallet, the magnets (and the magnetic field acts
just as if it were a bunch of springs. So as you put the sheets on the
pallet, the "spring" is compressed and energy goes into the Magnetic
field and as you pull sheets off, the energy comes back out just like
a spring. The magnet is in one sense thus, "supplying" energy but it
isn't "making" any.

If the magnets are electromagnets and you start with a collapsed
stack, obviously once the magnets are on, the sheets are lifted. That
energy to do that has to come in the electrical wires to the electro-
fanners. If you turn off the fanners and collapse the stack back down
it's clear that the energy available from doing that goes into field
and hence back into the electrical circuits of the electromagnets.
(except for friction on the stack side, heating etc.)

So these are nifty inventions but I don't see any mystery source of
energy here. Like Don implied about the Flynn paper, magnets make
very nifty "switchable springs" that let you balance and optimize
forces (as in a motor or actuator) But they really can't supply any
mystery energy from the outside that you didn't put in somehow.

There seem to be a great many people who are taken with the idea that
somehow one can make a free-energy machine if only you can find just
the right arrangement of magnets. I have seen nothing to indicate that
this idea is right. I'll grant that magnets may indeed be a critical
component of an "N-machine" but so far as I've seen the energy has to
be coming in from some OTHER source. The magnets are just there to
help you extract the energy from that "other" place.


-----------
I like this!
Faraday/Lenz , while useful do not deal with this situation. What is needed is an energy accounting and that is what is done as a basis in modern machine texts (and works)

magnetweb.com/design2.htm gives a good introduction to permanent magnets (Dr. Peter Campbell). <magnetweb.com/design2.htm>
No magic involved and the permanent magnet appears, in essence, as a electromagnetic solenoid with a core which basically has a permeability of mu0- nearly a constant flux source.
Magnetic fields are "conservative" as are gravitational fields.



--
Don Kelly
dhky@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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