Re: Valkyrie, the july bomb plot

dott.Piergiorgio wrote:

Peter Stickney ha scritto:

On the Naval field, a prorogation of the war means mainly... Type XXI.
with all the nastiness that a 1960s DE boat can do against WWII conwoys
& ASW (this is substantially what is a type XXI)

Again - how could the type XXI have come out any faster? By the time
they started welding together metal at all the dispersed fabrication
sites, the rail network that was required was overwhelmed by omnipresent
Allied airpower.

ahem... actually *two* type XXI made their only war patrol, interrupted
by the radio message announcing the surrender (and saving HMS Suffolk's
postwar career and a huge whodunit in the ASW ship around)

Two type XXIs at sea is, shall we say, a drop in the ocean.
But that's all they could get, despite all out efforts.
In the meantime, several dozens were scattered throughout the country in
handy bite-sized sections, unable to move between the fabrication shops and
the shipyards. Hitler getting blown up in July 1845 doesn't make the
Germans suddenly capable of defending their airspace. That damage was
irreparably done before September 1939 when, due to lack of resources and
short term need, the Germans were cutting corners on flight training, and
tasking their poorest pilots as flight instructors.
By summer of 1944, the situation from the German side was not salvagable.

(And as to the Suffolk, I submit that the jury is still out. Early 20th
Century German Officer Training appears to have included special courses in
self-aggrandizement and finger pointing.
I refer you to Sir Basil Liddell-Hart's "The German Generals Speak", or
anything by Fritz von Mellenthin as examples.)


I must point also that the what-if revolves around a much more rational
war management by germany after removal of the main issue at the top the
command chain.

By summer 1944, they were already re-aligning as best as they could. But
that could not provide them with what they needed - resources and time.
The lack of resources was a consequence of Geography and the inabily of the
Germans to get anything though the Allied blockade. As for time, the
Soviets had built up momentum, the Allies were breaking through in France,
and the technologies that the Germans thought would save them weren't
cooperating.

in 1944-45 666 squandered a large part of increasily diminishing
resources of the germany; surely a military junta in command will have
managed much better the dwindling resources, logistics and manpower
(esp. fighting manpower)

If I may ask, how? This was the period that construction nominally peaked,
but there wasn't any fuel or trained operators. The time to have been
training pilots and tankers and combat engineers (Pioneers) was in 1940 and
1941. Oh, yes - and no fuel to run the machines, and a railroad system
that was under constant attack by Allied aircraft that were ranging over
Germany pretty much at will.

If you examine German planning, and the conduct of the early part of the
war, you'll see that what they actually fought, up until the beginning of
1942, was a series of "small wars" a few months of campaigning, with
roughly 6 months of recuperation. This was because the General Staff knew
that they didn't have the resources or the training infrastructure to fight
a longer war. The Winter of 1942 and after didn't allow them any respite.

It is interesting to note the actions of the Luftwaffe in attempting to
defend the Reich after the Strategic Bombing Offensive resumed in the
Autumn of 1944. The Luftwaffe fighters had been completely destroyed in
the lead up to Normandy. The Luftwaffe rebuilt, but instead of trying to
fight a war of attrition with the Allies (Which, with their largely
inexperienced and poorly trained pilots, were going to lose), they tried
striking a few strong "Hammer Blows" that were supposed to somehow frighten
the Allies into not bombing.
It didn't work.
They tried this in other areas as well - the Ardennes Offensive, for
example, in a vain belief that we'd give up and go home.

I suppose it comes from listening to too much Wagner. :)


But, as I have pointed out, the maximum that they can hope is a
surrender around the lines of 1918 armistice & Versailles Treaty,and
against this objective lies the monstrous issue of the Mother of All
Evils, the Shoà.

They weren't even going to get that. Overall German behavior in the East
had made certain of that.
Best regards from Italy,

And to you, too. Happy Appropriate Holidays, and may you have a good New
Year.

--
Pete Stickney
The better the Four Wheel Drive, the further out you get stuck.
.

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