Re: US CLAAs

"Paul J. Adam" <news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

In message <878wy2lw5p.fsf@xxxxxxxxxx>, Gernot Hassenpflug
<gernot@xxxxxxxxxx> writes
"Paul J. Adam" <news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
The aim of AA fire isn't to shoot down enemy aircraft (that's what the
CAP is for), it's to prevent the leakers from sinking *you*. Kills are
a bonus.

I know that. That's why ships have point-defence systems.

Which, against kamikazes and fast aircraft, were 40mm and 3" guns by
1945 (20mm was considered only good for morale, and that dubious -
"when the Oerlikons open up, hit the deck" - and 40mm was

Yeah, I remember that one. It's been awhile now since I last saw it.

marginal). Medium-calibre AA had the range to give mutual support, or
protect consorts, and could kill or distract threats far enough out to
be useful. (The US opted for the 3" gun, the UK improved fire control
of the 40mm, as interim point-defence solutions).

Meanwhile, the only area air defence solution inside the fighter
engagement zone was the medium-calibre gun, with many discussions
about the merits of calibres from 4.5" to 6".

Indeed.

That's also
a bad argument for building CLAAs: "more targets is good".

Never mentioned "more targets". It's about getting the enemy under
effective fire, early enough to affect his accuracy. AA cruisers
weren't the only way to do that, but they remained a useful solution
for a while. What pushed them aside was improvements in SAM
capability.

Well, I disagree that Cthe LAAs of the _Atlanta_ class (not
necessarily the Worcester ahnd friends) were pushed aside by SAM, I
think they were pushed aside by being an outdated small design
envisaged before proper fighter CAP was possible, that could not
handle the necessary equipment weight-wise, and that was made
completely unnecessary by good fighter CAP strategies.

I don't disagree with your calibre argument, simply with the platform
being poor.

Agreed. That's what I argued: multi-purpose ships, not CLAAs.

The Darings weren't particularly multipurpose - little more so than a
Dido, and that mostly due to newer design and better sensors - and
were close to CLAAs anyway: the Didos clocked at 5450 tons, the
Darings at 3,800 tons with much improved machinery and welded
structure cutting weight sharply. Compare to the preceding
Weapon-class destroyers of 1,900 tons or so, and the Darings were more
akin to CLAAs than DDs.

Yes, but they were designed in the proper time frame to mount the
correct controls for their weapons. Time had not passed them by as it
had the Atlanta class: the advent of the carrier obsoleted loads of
classes of warships designed up to 1940.

RN postwar thinking looked hard at the optimum calibre of gun for AA,
and cruisers were required to carry the larger weapons such as
automatic 6" guns. The primary role of the cruiser was defined as
local air defence of aircraft carriers (First Sea Lord, 1947) but
financial constraints prevented new construction (Tiger and Blake were
left on the slips but that was about it. By 1949 thinking had
crystallised on combining the roles of cruisers and destroyers into a
multi-role light cruiser, with ASW devolving onto specialist
frigates. Hence, the County-class DLGs and the Type 14 frigates: but,
again, the Counties were much closer to a CLAA than a WW2 destroyer.

Once you get to the jet age, there is obviously another category of
constraint: can you have enough CAP with the short endurance of the
early jets? And if you try to use prop fighters as CAP, can they do
the job the WW2 CAPs had done? No, probably not, hence close-range AA
became more important.

The Brits had a lot more constraints to worry about too, and couldn't
get any of the solutions to the problem: not enough decks, not enough
airplanes, and not enough surface escorts.
--
BOFH excuse #95:

Pentium FDIV bug
.

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