Re: Why -Shinano, Lex. Sara. - Royal Oak


"a425couple" <a425couple@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:id6dnfU9nYvIjEHanZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Peter Skelton" <skeltonp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote ...
"Mark Bradford" <markbrad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote .
"Mark Bradford" <markbrad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"a425couple" <a425couple@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in...
<wfz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote ...
Does anyone know why Shinano wound up being such an ineffective
aircraft carrier design (before she was sunk, that is...) was it a
result of poor decision making, or materiel limitations, or both
As already really noted, pretty hard to discuss
Shinano's effectiveness since sunk before ever chance.

Well, one very valid point is how effective was the damage control on
Shinano vs that of Lexington and Saratoga. I seem to recall that the
Shinano did not last all that long after the initial hits.

To put possibly some detail on answers already given:
(been doing plenty of related reading in last 4 days,
but will post this without detailed refreshment/verification)

The Capt. of Shinano ploted his course to the fitting
out yard. He and his escort fleet sailed straight - no zig-zags!
He was very (read wrongly!) confident of his 'great' near
unsinkable ship. USN Archer put 4 torp. in.
Capt. did not change course or speed.

That doesnt jibe with the account given by the Archerfish
in U.S. SUBMARINE OPERATIONS, WW-II, U.S. NAVAL INSTITUTE

<quote>
Within an hour the target was identified as an aircraft carrier, on base
course 210, making 20 knots and zigzagging. Only one escort could be
located. The sky was overcast but bright moonlight seeped through the
clouds, and visibility was good for about 15,000 yards. The horizon was dark
to the north, so Enright started his approach on the enemy's starboard
flank.
.....
At 0316, the carrier zigged away from the submarine. This move put the ship
right where Enright wanted her. ARCHERFISH had been a little too close to
the target, and the zig gave her a nice position: 1,400 yards range with a
70-degree starboard track. Because of the late zig, Enright had to accept a
larger than normal gyro angle. No matter. At 0317 he fired the first shot of
a six-torpedo salvo - Mark 14's set for 10 feet and spread to smash into the
target from stern to bow.
</Quote>

He had his orders and plan, and since he felt his ship
'unsinkable' - least as concerns just 4 little US torps!
Did not head for land or any nearby port or yard.
Eight hours later, ship rolled over and sank!


And that doesnt square with the account given by the survivors
who reported that Captain Abe immediately ordered that
the ship head for Shiono Point. Moreover the ship didnt
rollover. She sank by the stern with a pronounced list.

However with one boiler room in flames and others flooding
speed quickly dropped to 10 knots and by 8.00 am the ship
was dead in the water. Captain Abe seems to have done
everything possible to save his ship, counterflooding to
reduced the list and ordering a tow when power was lost
but with missing watertight doors and cable glands it
was a hopeless task.

Note that contrary to many reports Archerfish did NOT witness
the carrier actually sinking but did report hearing distant breaking
up noises.

Keith


.

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