Re: CONSTRUCTION "SURVEYOR"

Bart,

Your post is typical of a surveyor who is feeling the squeeze from
technology and a profession that is changing. I don't mean that in a
derogatory manner, but if I had a dime for every time I heard comments
like yours, I'd be retired. Surveyors are struggling with their
indentity and your statement says it perfectly..."I have invested a lot
in my profession and would like to see it protected".

Protected by who? We are a capitalist economy. We are not society of
entitlement and your don't deserve "protection". You are paid what the
market says you are worth. If you don't like your pay, then you have to
increase your value (in the eyes of the market).

The land surveyor's scope of work is shrinking and construction layout
is only one area. Many, if not most, states don't require a license for
construction staking and most general contractors aren't going to use
an LS if they don't have to. GC has it right. No one can afford to wait
three weeks for the surveyor to layout and then wait another three
weeks to re-set when the dozer eats them up. You can't blame the
contractor for that and it's not the contractor's fault that there
aren't enough LSs available either. If you can't serve your client in a
timely manner, they will go somewhere else for a solution.

I think you are wrong to say there would be more surveyors if your
rates were higher. We are in the middle of the biggest construction
boom in recent history. It's not going to get any better than it is
right now. If you can't attract people to your industry during the best
of times, what happens when the next recession hits?

Look, IT is changing very dymanically and your industry is part of that
change. You either adapt and excel or you get left behind. You can't
keep doing the same thing you've done for the past 25 years and
complain because it doesn't work anymore.

Sat

GC, Like I said, I have no problem with you making a living off of your
skills and equipment, but you reinforced my point. We are more expensive and
we should be due to the Requirements we must meet in order to call ourselves
"Professionals". I don't personally go in the field for every staking job
but I do take on the liability for the accuracy of our work. The reason you
have to wait so long to get a surveyor on site is because there are not
enough of us to go around. If we could set our rates at a higher level more
people would be interested in pursuing a career as a Land Surveyor. The
education and experience requirements in most states for registration is
close to the same as a P.E. so most opt for the higher earning career. In my
state a land surveyor must pass four seperate tests whereas a P.E. only
takes two, not that I could pass the P.E. but most engineers couldn't pass
the L.S. without further education. In my opinion all field work including
construction layout should be done under the supervision of a Professional
Land Surveyor. I have invested a lot in my profession and would like to see
it protected.

I have the same equipment and love it. You should look into getting a
robotic total station in the future. They really shine in construction
layout. Very fast and should pay for themselves inside of a year depending
on your work load.

Bart



"Chips" <Chips1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:XI9Hg.10589$%j7.6092@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Well, here's the flip side.

I do construction layout for the company I work for. We build spec
hillside
homes around LA.

It would never work to have a prof surveyor do all that I do. They are
expensive, which is ok for them I'm sure, but as much as we would need
them,
it would be prohibitive. The setbacks, heights, etc. are pretty strict on
the hillsides, and we push right to the limits. I need to be accurate.

We could have a surveyor set stakes out for us and so on, and a week after
the excavator has been working, they would all be in a landfill somewhere.

Also, it takes a few weeks just to get him out there. To do this every
time
we need an area shot, it would take us a decade just to build an outhouse.
We still use the prof surveyor to do the topo, set corners, etc. Then I
get
the .dwg from him and off I go.

I use ACAD, preload my points, and my Sokia 530R3, and I love it. I'm far
faster, more accurate, and reliable with my layouts. And I'm never going
back to a builders transit. It would be like going back to rocks and clubs
from modern day conveniences.

I set heights, locations, go back and verify work, all sorts of stuff.

There, I feel better.

GC

"Bart Sims" <wbsims@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:tKJGg.128$Im5.81@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am constantly amazed at the level of competance in the field these days.
I
have only been surveying for 25 or so years. I stated on the back end of
a
chain and now I am a Ga. RLS. The first construction layouts wee with a
Theodolite, auto level, rod and chain, next we added an EDM and
calculator
for reducing distances. We staked everything from the plans which in that
era had enough information to actually lay out a job. Today you had
better
have the electronic drawing if you hope to stake a job.

The problem is every button pusher that can halfway run a data collector
thinks he is ready to run a crew and layout a job site, and so we have
construction layout "specialists" undercutting Genuine Land Surveyors but
when they are not handed everything in a coordinate file with a stakout
*** they start blaming the designer or engineer or cad guy for their
lack
of knowledge.

I am not knocking anyone for trying to make a living, but don't try to be
something you are not and don't try do to something you aren't qualified
to
do. You are going to eventually pay the price for a screw up. Don't ever
forget that if something goes wrong on a job site the fingers always
point
to the "surveyor".


There, I feel better now, Bart Sims

.

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